Fact is often funnier than fiction. If you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:
Posts by HB
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1Church can be fun...
by HB infact is often funnier than fiction.
if you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtppqotw3q0.
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How do you believe something is true - or reject it as a lie?
by BonaFide inwhen someone told me something new, or when i heard something new, how do you decide that it is true or not?
this was the way i decided to accept things or not for my entire life until a few months ago:.
1. does what i just heard support jehovah's organization?.
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HB
I find this a very interesting subject as it is at the heart of everyone's philosophy of life, whether a JW or not.
Theoretically, if you were to write a long list of all the widely varying beliefs that human beings have, with the most ridiculous and crazy ideas (in your opinion) at the top and working down to what you feel are the most logical ideas at the bottom, and then ask other people to draw a line to indicate where they feel the dividing line between fact and fiction lies, no one would be able to draw a line exactly.
Some would roughly draw the line right near the bottom of the list, as they mostly only believe in things that can be proved by science or logic, but they may still hold onto one or two highly illogical belief from the top of the list. Others would roughly draw the line near the top but reject something quite logical from the bottom of the list as untrue.
A lady I know who is an intelligent and successful business woman running her own company, has rejected all religion as superstition, but nevertheless firmly believes that she has been reincarnated and that in her previous life she was an ancient egyptian Princess. (Her cat who is called Tutankhamun was apparently her cat in her previous existence and was reincarnated with her.) Her bookshelves are full of self-help books on everything from healing the soul with a fruit diet to feng shui and coping with alien visitations. And also for the past few years each week she has paid about £100 for a consultation lasting half an hour with a personal spiritual guru (a clever American) who basically tells her what he knows she wants to hear (ie how amazing she is) but he disguises his 'wisdom' in spiritual-sounding language, claiming to teach her to get in touch with her inner child etc. She believes he has special powers other humans don't have.
When I have discussions with her, asking her how she knows her beliefs are true, she first brings out a 'wonderful and enlightening' book that she has read, She dismisses my point that just becasue it's written in a book, it doesn't mean something is true but claims she "just knows in every pore of her being it's 100% true". She says I am the blind one and hopes one day I will reach her level of enlightenment and understand truth in the powerful way that she does. She is just as deluded in my opinion as JWs are.
It may be simplistic, but I see her illogical beliefs being made while her rational mind is held in suspense. She points out that my judgement of what is rational and what is not is different to hers and asks who is to judge? I counter that truth is not subjective, and the discussion twists in and out and we eventually get nowhere and have to agree to differ.
My own way of deciding if something is true or a lie, (which applies to everything including an arguement between two children over who punched whom first, or whether God exists) is to try to keep emotion out of the process. I start off with a sceptical mind, then find out as much as I can on both sides of the arguement to learn the facts, listen to as many other opionions as possible, then use logic as best I can. But in cases where this cannot prove the matter either way, I go by the "balance of probability", but keep a little bit of my mind open. Emotions can be wonderful but can also be powerful and dangerous things if not kept in control by the logical side of the brain.
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Bad Japanese Economy
by PopeOfEruke inbad japanese economyaccording to inside contacts, the japanese banking crisis shows no signs of ameliorating.
if anything, it's getting worse.
following last week's news that origami bank had folded, we are hearing that sumo bank has gone belly up, and bonsai bank plans to cut back some of its branches.
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HB
The assets of the Sake Bank have recently been liquidated, and the mood amongst investors is very sober.
The Geisha Bank is still looking reasonably good, but there are rumours that they have been making up figures and whitewashing over problems to mask their true condition. Also their CEO recently bowed out which is not a good omen.
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COULD there possibly be a world with out a GOD...
by zeroday insay an alien world contacted us and discovered earth was populated with theists and they were shocked and suprised people of another world would believe in a god...would we be suprised shocked or just shaken to our core...could there possibly be a universe with out god...
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HB
I have thought about this myself in the past, and I feel that it is likely there are intelligent beings on another planet in this or another universe who have developed a cohesive society without a god.
I picture two scenarios, firstly if the alien beings had similar origins and development to earthlings with brains like ours and culture like ours, it is likely that initially they would have needed to invent creation myths and supernatural belief systems similar to our earthly religions. But if their civilization had existed for much longer than ours, so that their understanding of science and philosophy had matured and if their planet's education system had been effective, by now they may have outgrown the need for religion.
Or maybe if this alien species had very different origins and development to ours, they never had the need for belief in magic, superstition and religion in the first place. Not exactly a parallel but I am thinking of the society of humans created by test-tube in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World".
I agree with the Sacrificial Loon that the visitors would think earthlings with faith were primitive and quaint, in the same way most of us would react if we visited a remote tribe on earth today where they still believe that they must make food offerings to their carved wooden gods or pour the blood of a white goat on a particualr rock if they want the harvest to succeed.
But the point of the original question was to ask how we humans would react to the knowledge that there was a successful society without a god. I think most deeply religious people would not change their views whatever evidence was given.
I am not sure about Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc but I think committed Christians would just feel sorry for the aliens for missing out on the "joy" they personally experience, and would probably try to convert them. They would view them the same way they view an atheist, as misguided and blind.
But the knowledge may have a profound effect on the countless people who are not quite sure whether there is a god or not. It would depend on how happy and successful the godless alien society was and how they organised themsleves and formed their moral codes.
The first question I would want to ask the aliens would be whether, without religion, war existed on their planet. I am thinking of the John Lennon song 'Imagine'.... "Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try, No Hell below us, above us only sky, Imagine all the people, living life in peace. Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.............................."
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Words in other languages which have different meanings to when we say them
by The Nothing Man indoes anybody know of any words, which are spelt and pronounced the same, which are used in other languages but which mean completely different things?
as an example (which doesn't work i know) love in english means affection, but love in say, spanish, means hate?
dumb example i know, but do you catch my drift?
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HB
The Russian word BOG means GOD.
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Why do most people not think?
by llbh ini have just had a long conversation with a dear friend, and we came to the same conclusion most people do not really think.. he is 75 and is fizzing with ideas, got a phd at 60. in fractals( no have little idea what they are).
for instance it was and is blindingly obvious to me that the price of oil would drop, it has a little.
the reasons are simple and i am prepared to discuuss that if you want.. i have observed in relationships recently, my own included, that we ignore the what is happening, and often to our, and our familie's long term benefit.
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HB
I would imagine most posters on this board are, de facto, "thinkers" to some degree ~ that's why you are here. However I'm not sure if you will relate to the following or not, which is on a lighter note than some of the above posts.
Non-thinkers may or may not be deep-down happier ~ but they do sometimes seem to have more fun, at least the non-religious ones. They skate across the surface of life without looking into the depths, untroubled by philosophy, ethics, Truth or the nature of reality.
I remember very clearly the moment I discovered that it is not always helpful in all circumstances to be a deep thinker. One afternoon when I was a teenager, I watched a TV wildlife programme showing how birds and animals attract a mate by displaying, preening, calling, dancing, strutting, fighting and drawing attention to themselves, males trying to assert dominance and display strength and prowess and females being choosy and coy but also hoping to get noticed by the males.
That evening I went to a noisy teenage party and when it was in full swing, I found myself analysing the reasons why I and all these other people had chosen to spending our time jumping around, flirting, posturing, hips gyrating to the music wearing fashionable clothes, jewellery, perfume and make-up (it was the '70s ~ some boys wore make up too!), and the scene became high comedy to me when I compared it to the wild-life film and saw the parallels between the two. I suddenly couldn't dance any more. I felt terribly self-conscious and ridiculous and it killed the spontanaity. (BTW I have never taken drugs and was not drunk.)
I thought about how the people in the room believed they were so cool and sophisticated, but in fact they were behaving no differently to animals. I was watching them watching each other, aware of the unspoken sub-text going on behind everything that was happening. I was analyzing the reason why the girls were fiddling with their hair and the boys were standing legs wide apart playing imaginary electric guitars. It seemed all the weirder because my friends were not conscious of or thinking about the motives for their behaiour, they were just following their instincts.
My thinking spoiled my evening, From then on I could not get rid of my self-aware thoughts and do what my friends were doing. I desperately wished I could be like the others and NOT THINK, but just mindlessly enjoy myself. I did not say anything as I felt sure no-one would have a clue what on earth I was on about if I tried to explain, even though my friends were all intelligent. They were just not in thinking mode, not analyzing, but just happily existing in the moment.
It's an example of how I have found conscious thinking can occasionally be a bit of a disadvantage in some aspects of every day life. However when life is hit by problems, it is usually the thinkers who have the advantage.
I'm not sure if anyone reading this will understand what I felt at the time or whether it was just me that was odd and in my own little world!
Footnote: I am pleased to say I have over the years more or less learnt not to be a thinker all the time, so I can now enjoy dancing without caring if I am behaving like a baboon.
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No Girls Scout Cookies for you!
by independent_tre ineven though, i was raised in a witness home, i never remember hearing that girl scout cookies were a no-no.
and even though i've only been baptized for a few years, i don't remember any specific admonishment of these sweet treats.
but recently at work a jdub coworker made it a point to remind me that jw's do not buy or eat girl scout cookies.
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HB
I am a Guide Leader (UK equivalent to Girl Scouts) and have been in the Guide Movement for 45 years. I love it and am proud of it's achievements.
In 1907 Lord Baden Powell (the founder) deliberately called his experiement the Scout Movement, not the Scout Organisation as he wanted it to move forward with the times and stay relevant to the youth of the future. Although the activities the young people get involved in are quite different nowadays to those of 100 years ago, the core purpose has not changed. Countless children and adults have benefitted all around the world. If only the Watch Tower Society could say the same! By being negative about Girl scout cookies they just make themselves look mean and foolish.
Guiding and Scouting aim to give children and young people opportunities to try new things and expand their horizons, develop their skills and talents, learn to be good citizens, contribute to their local community, gain leadership skills and self-confidence at the same time as making new friends and having loads of fun. (This includes the adults - dangling upside down on an abseiling rope on rocks during a thunderstorm at camp was certainly a new experience for me!) I am just off now to set out a treasure hunt in the local woods ("The search for the Golden Tootle-Warbler") for my 36 Guides for our meeting tonight so am hoping it won't rain! In comparison what can the WTS claim they have done for children? Taught them to sit still during meetings?
Incidentally if any of you are trying to make new friends outside the WTS and move on from the past I would highly recommend volunteering to help with the Scouts or Guides - you don't have to have previously been a member or have any special skills or experience and you will find it is a warm and friendly 'family' and will give you a real sense of fulfillment and you will know you are doing something worthwhile.
Heather
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Do the religious have higher morals than the non-religious?
by digderidoo inok, i was going to ask whether christians have higher morals, but i thought that other religions have the same kind of morals too.. when i look at those who sincerely follow their religion, i think that they do have a higher morality than those who do not follow some sort of scriptural guidelines.. this is not to say that the religious have a monopoly on morality, or to say that some religious people are not hypocritical in doing what they say, rather than what they do.
but as a whole it seems to me that someone with a religious upbringing has higher standards than someone without.. now some would say that higher standards or lower standards are defined by society, so therefore by whose definition do they have higher morals.
this would be a fair assumption.
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HB
I visited the USSR in 1973 when not only was it a secular state, but all religions were heavily suppressed. 'Morality' was taught to children by parents and schools and was based on innate human instincts and traditions passed down over generations rather than on written laws or religious teachings. I found the standard of morality there to be no different than in countries where religion is integrated into the fabric of society. Russia was supposed to be classless but of course it was not, and I did find that, as in the UK and I guess elsewhere, the working classes were in many ways more moral then the upper classes.
I met lots of lovely people (I was studying the Russain language) and in Odessa I was invited to attend a meeting of an underground Christian 'church' that met secretly in someone's house. It was a group of about 20 mainly young students who were studying English. It was quite amazing as they did not even have a Bible, just a few type-written sheets of information and Bible texts sent to them from the West. The main reason they invited me was because they were desperate for more information about Christianity and they begged me to send them a Bible and any other literature I could when I got home. They based their whole attitude to morality on the text "Love thy neighbour as thyself" which I felt was a great way to live and they were very sincere about putting it into practice. Although I did eventually send out some Bibles (disguised as classic novels), I was rather diffident about it as I think they had probably already found an ideal basis for simple and pure morality without reading too much further and spoiling it with layers of dogma!
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Any actually embarrased to admit they were Witnesses?
by Robert7 inwhen i was active, i was always (usually) proud to talk about being a jw, our faith, reasons for our stupid beliefs on birthdays, x-mas, etc.
now with everything i'm going through, given how much of an impact this is to my life, i want to talk to others about it, like coworkers, and other friends.
but thinking about how i would explain how it's a mind-controlling cult, i feel stupid for falling for it.
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HB
Speaking as someone who has never been a JW and knew almost nothing about the religion before March this year, (ie a worldly person), I am looking at this topic from a different perspective than most of you.
Far from judging you as idiots or freaks for previously being taken in by this religion, I have the greatest respect for you. The crucial element as others have said, is that little word "EX" in front of the words "Jehovah's Witness". That word 'ex' should be worn metaphorocally on your forehead as a badge of intelligence and pride.
For those who were born in or joined as children, you had no choice about what happened to you, but you deserve huge admiration for having the brains, courage and determination to get out, or to currently be in the process of doing so. Many of you have faced enormous challenges and overcome seemingly impossible obstacles to achieve your freedom. That deserves respect.
For those who were converted as adults, you need to remember that you are not the only ones in the world that made a mistake, EVERYONE makes errors of judgement........... a bad career choice, an unwise financial investment, an unsuitable spouse, bad choice of friends etc. You just happened to choose the wrong religion, (I'm not saying there's a right religion, but hopefully you know what I mean!) I would guess that in almost all cases, you chose to join the JWs at a time when either you had not yet found your true identity and purpose in life and were searching for something, or at a time when your emotions were in control rather than your head. And now you have also seen the light and proved your intelligence, courage and determination. So please try not to feel ashamed or guilty - it's completely unnecessary!
I suggest you could look on your JW years as if you have been on an gruelling journey to the Arctic where you developed snow-blindness and frost bite, became hopelessly lost for a time wandering on the ice in ever-decreasing circles, were cut off from the world, fell down deep crevasses, fought off agressive polar bears and almost starved, but in spite of all this you survived and reached civilisation and warmth again. You should be as proud to tell your JW story as an Arctic explorer would be to tell of his/her adventures. You have triumphed against all the odds and lived to tell the tale, and have a lot more to be proud of as a consequence than others who never had such difficult challenges in their lives.
To those of you who are afraid to tell people about your past because you think no one who has not been a JW member will understand, just check that you are not holding on to vestiges of the WTS teaching that all worldly people are selfish and uncaring. From what I have seen, JWs are very judgemental and intolerant so if you are newly out of the religion, you may think that everyone else in the world is like that and will continue to treat you in the same way. Of course some worldy people are just as bad or worse than bigoted JWs but don't tar everyone with the same brush; in my experience most worldly people are very understanding and symathetic. Just don't dump everything about your past on them in one go and expect them to understand immediately. Some will be compassionate, some will be indifferent, but few if any will think you are stupid. If they don't show interest or empathise, it's their loss and you don't need to be ashamed.
If you tell someone that you used to be a JW and there is an awkward silence or they change the subject, don't automatically assume they are judging you negatively, it's more likely that THEY are the one feeling inadequate and embarrassed as they don't know what to say. Some people are not comfortable discussing topics which are outside their own experience.
Also they may be assuming that you are a "religious" person and therefore have very high moral standards and they are inwardly panicking that you are judging their less than perfect morals. A Methodist Minister I knew a few years ago told me that he was used to people asking him at social occasions what he did for a living and when he told them, it immediately killed the conversation. But he realised that often the silence was because they were suddenly conscious that a few moments before, they had sworn or told a dirty joke or something! He was good at quickly putting people at ease as he was not judgemental and could tell a few dirty jokes himself, but it's worth remembering this when you mention your past JW status.
If you would feel confident enough in a relationship or social situation to tell someone what politcal party you would vote for then you should be ok telling them about your past religious membership.
There will be many outsiders who are eager to know what your JW life was all about and have countless questions as I do. Sweet Pea was right when she wrote that many non JWs would be wide eyed and interested to hear about your experiences. I certainly am, it is fascinating although at times heart-breaking. She is also right that it is like learning about a secret society, a world that the rest us knows nothing about.
A couple of months ago, the subject of cults came up (as it was in the news) at a dinner party I was at. It was an interesting discussion and in the course of it, I told the others what I had learned at that time about the JW religion. They were all fascinated and since then, as I have been learning more, five of the twelve who were at the dinner party have been asking me to pass on to them what I learn, as like me they are intrigued by what motivates people to believe such strange things. I found out that all of these 5 people have discussed the topic with other people at their work etc.
One of the most common reasons for curiosity I have found is that a lot of people want to know one or two arguements they can use on the door-step if JWs call. They don't have time to spend time trawling the internet or want to research deeply but just want a couple of facts that are easy to remember so that rather than just saying 'no thanks' and closing the front door they can say something relevant. They are not on a crusade but the existence of cults offends many, (not sure if this applies more in the UK than the USA?) and they like to occasionally do their bit to counter irrationality. The grapevine works quickly, so JWs in service in this area had better watch out!
So I would say to those of you dedicated to trying to bringing down the WTS or to helping as many JWs to see the light as you can, don't always avoid telling outsiders about the cult; in some cases we have access to tell the truth to JWs we know that you as apostates would not have. The JW that I am trying to help still talks to me although her study conductor has told her I am an "agent of Satan". But if I was an apostate, I am sure she would not be talking to me. I know my friend is embarrassed to tell people she is a JW to the extent that she is quite happy to lie about why she can't go to a birthday drink at the pub, so that gives me hope!
In summary well done to those of you who are comfortable with your past and to those who are not YET, I hope one day soon you too will realise there is no need to be ashamed and I hope will find peace as you concentrate on having a great life in the present and the future.
Love Heather
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How much does gas cost where you live?
by reneeisorym ini was depressed yesterday because i put in the first $40.00 tank of gas.
(i drive a toyota matrix -- i'm sure most people should think i should shut up now ...) .
i was hoping you guys could make me feel grateful for only having to pay $40.
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