HB

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Posts by HB

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  16

  New Creationist museum in Portsmouth UK

  by HB in

  1. social
  2. current

  it appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the uk too.. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm.

  by julian joyce .

  bbc news .

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  HB

  Sorry something went amiss with the pasting, if you want to read the article, best to click the link.
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  16

  New Creationist museum in Portsmouth UK

  by HB in

  1. social
  2. current

  it appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the uk too.. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm.

  by julian joyce .

  bbc news .

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  HB

  It appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the UK too.

  See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm

  Who are the British creationists?

  By Julian Joyce BBC News Widely believed in the United States, creationism - the belief that God created the earth and man in six days - is enjoying a resurgence of support in the UK, say its believers and its critics. At first glance the Genesis Expo museum, in the naval town of Portsmouth, looks like any other repository of natural history exhibits: fossils of dinosaurs and unusual rock formations. But focus on the narrative of the information panels alongside them, and you start to realise this is a museum with a difference - one dedicated to the theory of creationism. The revelation that US vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin says creationism should be taught in schools, alongside that of evolutionary theory, has raised few eyebrows in the US. An estimated 47% of Americans reject outright Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, accepting instead the Bible's account of the creation of the universe - as laid out in the first chapter of Genesis. If we came from nothing and go into nothing... that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles Rev Greg Haslam, Westminster Chapel, London Call for creationism in science But in Britain, where a portrait of Darwin appears on the back of the £10 note, his theory of life evolving from primitive to complex structures by means of natural selection appears to be unchallenged orthodoxy. Not so, say those on both sides of the creationist divide - a point amply proved by the existence of the Genesis Expo museum, to date Britain's only creationist museum. The museum is the work of Britain's oldest creationist group, the Creation Science Movement, which has built Genesis Expo to visibly challenge the theory of evolution . In its walk-through display, fossils in glass cases purport to show that ancient animals - including man - did not evolve from lower creatures but were instead divinely created "after their kind" (Genesis Chapter 1, verse 21). A picture of a landslide-causing volcano is used to counter the scientific understanding that rock strata took millions of years to build up. And throughout the display are scattered examples of "intelligent design" - complex creatures that "could not have evolved" as the result of natural selection. Gravestone exhibit Leading British scientist and author Dr Richard Dawkins has warned of creationist "brainwashing" in the UK - spurred on by an unwillingness of the authorities to offend religious sensibilities. His creationist adversaries say their ideas are beginning to gain wider acceptance within these shores as dissatisfaction grows with "materialist" evolutionary explanations of how life began. The pocket evolutionist - Charles Darwin, on the back of a £10 note Museum curator Ross Rosevear describes himself as a "Young Earth" creationist, who believes that the earth was created in six days "less than 10,000 years ago." Standing before the museum's prize exhibit - a mock gravestone inscribed: "Here lies the Theory of Evolution" - he rejects as "unreliable" the scientific tests that fix the age of the earth at more than four billion years. While he concedes his convictions are intimately connected with his Christian faith, he insists the evidence presented in the displays could convince even non-believers of the "fatal flaws" in Darwin's theory of evolution. "All we are saying is that it is not unreasonable to present an alternative explanation of how life began," he says. For some, it's an explanation that has gained a surprisingly wide acceptance in the UK. A 2006 survey for the BBC found that more than a fifth of those polled were convinced by the creationist argument. Less than half - 48% - chose evolution. And while the Church of England this week issues a formal apology to Charles Darwin, after initially denying his theory, other churches - mostly on the evangelical Christian wing - adhere to old beliefs. Growing support Justin Thacker, head of theology for the Evangelical Alliance, says research in 1998 found one third of the Alliance church members were "literal six-day creationists." The other two thirds embraced evolutionary theory to a "greater or lesser degree" he says. British creationist and curator of Genesis Expo, Ross Rosevear "Since that survey was done, I'd say fewer of our members are out-and-out creationists - it has become more acceptable to embrace some form of Darwinism," he says. But Keith Porteous Wood of the Secular Society is unconvinced. "There is no question that creationism is growing," he says. "It is increasingly well funded, and well organised." The society says Britain is beginning to follow the lead of the US where supporters and opponents of creationism have joined battle - in the school classroom. Two years ago the government sought to clarify the rules on creationist teaching, following revelations that the head of science at one of its new academies was the director of an anti-evolution pressure group. A spokeswoman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families says creationism is not included in the science curriculum because "it has no scientific basis... but it can be discussed in [religious education] lessons". Creationist schools But that ruling was questioned last week by an influential figure. The Rev Professor Michael Reiss, director of education at the Royal Society, says science teachers ought to be willing to talk about creationism if students bring the subject up. He told the British Association Festival of Science in Liverpool that while making clear creationism is not accepted by the scientific community, teachers should convey a message of respect that does not "denigrate or ridicule" children's beliefs. Charles Darwin - 200 years from your birth (1809) the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, of CofE's mission and public affairs department Church of England - On the origin of Darwin It's a sentiment that inflames the anti-creationist lobby, which sees any compromises in the classroom as a betrayal of children's interests. "Creationism is anti-science," says Mr Porteous Wood. "Teaching it to children is a form of intellectual child abuse, because it gives them the wrong facts about life." His passionate views echo those of Prof Dawkins, who last month accused teachers of "bending over backwards" to respect "prejudices" that children have been brought up with at home. And secular groups also point out that while state school pupils are "protected" from creationist teaching, similar guidelines do not exist to cover children who attend private religious schools - Christian, Jewish and Muslim. One such school that teaches creationism as a science is the respected Islamic Karimia Institute in Nottingham. "We teach what it says in the Koran, that God created Adam and Eve, and from them came the rest of humanity," says institute director Dr Musharraf Hussain. "We do not teach that man is descended from a lower animal - we say that God created the different species on their own." This shared belief in the origins of man - and the universe - is uniting unlikely bedfellows in the anti-evolution cause. The Rev Greg Haslam, who preaches the creationist Christian creed to his 400-strong congregation at Westminster Chapel in London, welcomes the determination of Muslims to impart a religious-based view of the world. "Science does not have to be taught in conflict with faith or religion," he says. "I believe the current debate over creationism versus evolution is beginning to draw more and people over to our side of the argument "The materialist explanation of the creation has nothing to offer - if we came from nothing and go into nothing, then that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles. "Evolution is a world-view that leads to futility. It's no wonder people are dissatisfied with it." .....................................................................................................

  See link above for comments on the article posted by the public.

  Further info about the museum can be seen at https://www.csm.org.uk/expo.php?PHPSESSID=f1d1e1e18a303b64f8849237cf68d505 or the museum's own website www.genesisexpo.co.uk

  I live near Portsmouth so I may go to visit out of curiosity, I am quite interested to see what comments are in the visitors' book that they have not published on the web.
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  22

  Have you ever order food online?

  by asilentone in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  HB

  I have a tip which may not be useful in other countries, I place grocery orders online before going camping, and I have found that provided we are not too deep in the wilds, supermarkets will deliver to a campsite which saves wasting time going off food shopping. They usually deliver right to the tent door if we are able to specify whereabouts we are.
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  74

  COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE WT STUDY 09-07-08 (HOUSE TO HOUSE MINISTR

  by Mary in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  " (this would harmonize with matt 10:9 that tells them not to take any money with them).

  " the interpretation of the acts of the apostles, 1961, pp.120-21.

  it became evident, however, that further personal training in the house-to-house ministry was needed.

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  HB

  Having never been a JW, I read through this post (as I do other posts) with wide eyes and my mouth (probably rather unattractively) open in amazement and incredulity. I find learning about this religion very interesting but it's hard to comprehend how so many people are duped by the WTS .

  One little word in the Watchtower propaganda struck me:

  Two neatly dressed individuals approach a house and endeavor to share with the householder a brief message from the Bible concerning God's Kingdom. If he shows interest in the message, they may present Bible-based literature and offer a free home Bible study. [My underlining]

  Not sure why they would use the word "free"? Do they regularly promote the lack of cost for a study or was it just slipped in here as an almost subliminal marketing ploy?

  The way I read it was......"just think how generous we are and what an amazing opportunity householders would be turning down if they say no; we could charge people a large sum of money for this Bible study but we are so charitable that as a special privilege, they can have it FREE!. They really are lucky people".
  (Oh sorry just realised they would not use the term 'lucky', not sure if 'fortunate' is ok instead?)

  I sometimes wonder if people would still be interested if they had to pay to study with the WTS? Sometimes putting a price on something makes it seem more desirable.... conversely the perception is that if something is free it can't be much good. Just imagine if the WTS did charge and used tacky commercial advertising in newspapers to promote the religion.....

  "AMAZING OFFER! FREE TRAINING OPPORTUNITY. Do you want to make new friends and learn the secrets of happiness? Do you want to live forever? To find out more call 0800 1234 (lines open 24 hours). Our friendly staff will arrange for one of our highly trained study conductors to call in person at a time to suit you. For this month only, the normal fee of £30.00 for your first session will be waived providing you sign up for a full course of personal study! And what's more, if you call before 31st September you will get a 10% discount off the cost of 6 months worth of trainings. Two incredible offers too good to miss. So what are you waiting for, don't delay call now, your life depends on it!"

  I'm sure it won't happen like that, but actually it would probably be more effective than door to door in attracting gullible people, the sort who are quite happy to send £50 in the post for a silver-plated four leaf clover or crystal talisman that will bring good luck.
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  1

  Church can be fun...

  by HB in

  1. social
  2. humour

  fact is often funnier than fiction.

  if you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtppqotw3q0.

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  HB

  Fact is often funnier than fiction. If you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTppQOTW3Q0
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  7

  How do you believe something is true - or reject it as a lie?

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when someone told me something new, or when i heard something new, how do you decide that it is true or not?

  this was the way i decided to accept things or not for my entire life until a few months ago:.

  1. does what i just heard support jehovah's organization?.

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  HB

  I find this a very interesting subject as it is at the heart of everyone's philosophy of life, whether a JW or not.

  Theoretically, if you were to write a long list of all the widely varying beliefs that human beings have, with the most ridiculous and crazy ideas (in your opinion) at the top and working down to what you feel are the most logical ideas at the bottom, and then ask other people to draw a line to indicate where they feel the dividing line between fact and fiction lies, no one would be able to draw a line exactly.

  Some would roughly draw the line right near the bottom of the list, as they mostly only believe in things that can be proved by science or logic, but they may still hold onto one or two highly illogical belief from the top of the list. Others would roughly draw the line near the top but reject something quite logical from the bottom of the list as untrue.

  A lady I know who is an intelligent and successful business woman running her own company, has rejected all religion as superstition, but nevertheless firmly believes that she has been reincarnated and that in her previous life she was an ancient egyptian Princess. (Her cat who is called Tutankhamun was apparently her cat in her previous existence and was reincarnated with her.) Her bookshelves are full of self-help books on everything from healing the soul with a fruit diet to feng shui and coping with alien visitations. And also for the past few years each week she has paid about £100 for a consultation lasting half an hour with a personal spiritual guru (a clever American) who basically tells her what he knows she wants to hear (ie how amazing she is) but he disguises his 'wisdom' in spiritual-sounding language, claiming to teach her to get in touch with her inner child etc. She believes he has special powers other humans don't have.

  When I have discussions with her, asking her how she knows her beliefs are true, she first brings out a 'wonderful and enlightening' book that she has read, She dismisses my point that just becasue it's written in a book, it doesn't mean something is true but claims she "just knows in every pore of her being it's 100% true". She says I am the blind one and hopes one day I will reach her level of enlightenment and understand truth in the powerful way that she does. She is just as deluded in my opinion as JWs are.

  It may be simplistic, but I see her illogical beliefs being made while her rational mind is held in suspense. She points out that my judgement of what is rational and what is not is different to hers and asks who is to judge? I counter that truth is not subjective, and the discussion twists in and out and we eventually get nowhere and have to agree to differ.

  My own way of deciding if something is true or a lie, (which applies to everything including an arguement between two children over who punched whom first, or whether God exists) is to try to keep emotion out of the process. I start off with a sceptical mind, then find out as much as I can on both sides of the arguement to learn the facts, listen to as many other opionions as possible, then use logic as best I can. But in cases where this cannot prove the matter either way, I go by the "balance of probability", but keep a little bit of my mind open. Emotions can be wonderful but can also be powerful and dangerous things if not kept in control by the logical side of the brain.
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  9

  Bad Japanese Economy

  by PopeOfEruke in

  1. social
  2. current

  bad japanese economyaccording to inside contacts, the japanese banking crisis shows no signs of ameliorating.

  if anything, it's getting worse.

  following last week's news that origami bank had folded, we are hearing that sumo bank has gone belly up, and bonsai bank plans to cut back some of its branches.

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  HB

  The assets of the Sake Bank have recently been liquidated, and the mood amongst investors is very sober.

  The Geisha Bank is still looking reasonably good, but there are rumours that they have been making up figures and whitewashing over problems to mask their true condition. Also their CEO recently bowed out which is not a good omen.
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  8

  COULD there possibly be a world with out a GOD...

  by zeroday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  say an alien world contacted us and discovered earth was populated with theists and they were shocked and suprised people of another world would believe in a god...would we be suprised shocked or just shaken to our core...could there possibly be a universe with out god...

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  HB

  I have thought about this myself in the past, and I feel that it is likely there are intelligent beings on another planet in this or another universe who have developed a cohesive society without a god.

  I picture two scenarios, firstly if the alien beings had similar origins and development to earthlings with brains like ours and culture like ours, it is likely that initially they would have needed to invent creation myths and supernatural belief systems similar to our earthly religions. But if their civilization had existed for much longer than ours, so that their understanding of science and philosophy had matured and if their planet's education system had been effective, by now they may have outgrown the need for religion.

  Or maybe if this alien species had very different origins and development to ours, they never had the need for belief in magic, superstition and religion in the first place. Not exactly a parallel but I am thinking of the society of humans created by test-tube in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World".

  I agree with the Sacrificial Loon that the visitors would think earthlings with faith were primitive and quaint, in the same way most of us would react if we visited a remote tribe on earth today where they still believe that they must make food offerings to their carved wooden gods or pour the blood of a white goat on a particualr rock if they want the harvest to succeed.

  But the point of the original question was to ask how we humans would react to the knowledge that there was a successful society without a god. I think most deeply religious people would not change their views whatever evidence was given.

  I am not sure about Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc but I think committed Christians would just feel sorry for the aliens for missing out on the "joy" they personally experience, and would probably try to convert them. They would view them the same way they view an atheist, as misguided and blind.

  But the knowledge may have a profound effect on the countless people who are not quite sure whether there is a god or not. It would depend on how happy and successful the godless alien society was and how they organised themsleves and formed their moral codes.

  The first question I would want to ask the aliens would be whether, without religion, war existed on their planet. I am thinking of the John Lennon song 'Imagine'.... "Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try, No Hell below us, above us only sky, Imagine all the people, living life in peace. Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.............................."
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  25

  Words in other languages which have different meanings to when we say them

  by The Nothing Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anybody know of any words, which are spelt and pronounced the same, which are used in other languages but which mean completely different things?

  as an example (which doesn't work i know) love in english means affection, but love in say, spanish, means hate?

  dumb example i know, but do you catch my drift?

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  HB

  The Russian word BOG means GOD.
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  53

  Why do most people not think?

  by llbh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have just had a long conversation with a dear friend, and we came to the same conclusion most people do not really think.. he is 75 and is fizzing with ideas, got a phd at 60. in fractals( no have little idea what they are).

  for instance it was and is blindingly obvious to me that the price of oil would drop, it has a little.

  the reasons are simple and i am prepared to discuuss that if you want.. i have observed in relationships recently, my own included, that we ignore the what is happening, and often to our, and our familie's long term benefit.

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  HB

  I would imagine most posters on this board are, de facto, "thinkers" to some degree ~ that's why you are here. However I'm not sure if you will relate to the following or not, which is on a lighter note than some of the above posts.

  Non-thinkers may or may not be deep-down happier ~ but they do sometimes seem to have more fun, at least the non-religious ones. They skate across the surface of life without looking into the depths, untroubled by philosophy, ethics, Truth or the nature of reality.

  I remember very clearly the moment I discovered that it is not always helpful in all circumstances to be a deep thinker. One afternoon when I was a teenager, I watched a TV wildlife programme showing how birds and animals attract a mate by displaying, preening, calling, dancing, strutting, fighting and drawing attention to themselves, males trying to assert dominance and display strength and prowess and females being choosy and coy but also hoping to get noticed by the males.

  That evening I went to a noisy teenage party and when it was in full swing, I found myself analysing the reasons why I and all these other people had chosen to spending our time jumping around, flirting, posturing, hips gyrating to the music wearing fashionable clothes, jewellery, perfume and make-up (it was the '70s ~ some boys wore make up too!), and the scene became high comedy to me when I compared it to the wild-life film and saw the parallels between the two. I suddenly couldn't dance any more. I felt terribly self-conscious and ridiculous and it killed the spontanaity. (BTW I have never taken drugs and was not drunk.)

  I thought about how the people in the room believed they were so cool and sophisticated, but in fact they were behaving no differently to animals. I was watching them watching each other, aware of the unspoken sub-text going on behind everything that was happening. I was analyzing the reason why the girls were fiddling with their hair and the boys were standing legs wide apart playing imaginary electric guitars. It seemed all the weirder because my friends were not conscious of or thinking about the motives for their behaiour, they were just following their instincts.

  My thinking spoiled my evening, From then on I could not get rid of my self-aware thoughts and do what my friends were doing. I desperately wished I could be like the others and NOT THINK, but just mindlessly enjoy myself. I did not say anything as I felt sure no-one would have a clue what on earth I was on about if I tried to explain, even though my friends were all intelligent. They were just not in thinking mode, not analyzing, but just happily existing in the moment.

  It's an example of how I have found conscious thinking can occasionally be a bit of a disadvantage in some aspects of every day life. However when life is hit by problems, it is usually the thinkers who have the advantage.

  I'm not sure if anyone reading this will understand what I felt at the time or whether it was just me that was odd and in my own little world!

  Footnote: I am pleased to say I have over the years more or less learnt not to be a thinker all the time, so I can now enjoy dancing without caring if I am behaving like a baboon.