Posts by reniaa

77

Taking apart the Memorial

by jgnat in

a new poster inspired me to take a look at the memorial talk and the way that the witnesses honor (dishonor) jesus' memory.

i had mentioned that the form is, from this christian's point of view, an abomination.

the participant is encouraged to look and not partake.

reniaa

This is a thorough post jgnat thank you i just wondered if it would be useful to post an alternative mass the way another christian faith would do it for comparative study?

I'm going to look up memorial and post later tonight with my thoughts :)

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

I agree with you nomoreguilt, I've had my say on this topic that only leaves me to say thank you to all posters for their imput and info, I read all replies

reniaa

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

So going by your words this site is just the blunt instrument and its still upto those that are influenced by what they learn on here to build a new life for themselves and find some sort of religion they can follow. thats makes layla story even less realistic so no "warm bed cheque or new home" offered at all as you say

it isn't up to this forum to provide you with an alternative.

hmm not sure i approve of that even if people do come on here of there own free will.

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

lol I was just being ironic I'm glad it made you smile, the inate point was valid though what are we offering that is better on this forum?

Strip away a persons beliefs and they still have a empty space to fill!

31

Pop Psychology - warning

by Uzzah in

jw
friends

for the past few months i have found myself biting my tongue at what i have been observing with some participants on jwd.

please keep in mind i have been around since noah on these boards (circa 1997) and have watched several trends and people come and go over the years.. i am not seeking approval, support or anything other than expressing a personal observation.. every once in a while an egoist appears on the ex-jw boards.

more often than not a former elder who feels they continue to hold some sort of special wisdom that they must proclaim to the masses.

reniaa

Good post :) no one know the age or circumstance of people on here only what they are apparently told as well as what makes some qualified to give advice so always be cautious is a good rule of thumb.

239

I Do Not Understand Why JWs Leave & Become Catholics!

by minimus in

jw
friends

out of all religions, catholicism, to me, is wrong and clearly could never be the truth.

reniaa

I'll just say if i was a catholic I would be glad I live in this century and not in the time of "The Inquisition" i'd have been burned as a witch lol but seriously I think the Catholic church is directly to blame for why there are so many fractured christian faiths and denominations, if the catholic church had stayed truer to the bible teachings rather than getting rapped up in the pomp and idolatory then we might still all be catholics,

As one of our oldest faiths it was entrusted with the spiritual well-being of the people instead it got too involved with acquiring wealth and politics (An interesting look-up is the history between kings/rulers and popes) it even stopped the normal person having access to the bible to read.

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

hi layla I reread your post and example it was interesting.

I asked if I could speak to her, she agreed. I wanted to give her the check, she refused. So I asked her why she didn't want the money, why she didn't want to live in the house with a few other women, and she said, "well I don't want welfare, that's welfare" and then she said, "well I don' t want to live with other women in a house" and I said, "but you have your own room" and she just looked at me, "I'm happy with my routine, I have been doing this for 14 years." I said, "you would rather live and sleep in a parking garage, then in a warm house with your own bathroom?" She didn't say anything, because what I was saying was completely true and logical, but she had made up her mind.
In one weeks time she was right back to her routine, with Max by her side.
Whenever you see a JW that has been doing it for years considering going back, think of Jane and sleeping in the parking garage.
posted by layla33

but wrong analogy because what are you offering me as a "warm bed, Cheque, job" in return for turning away from Jw's? Well i've had 10/11 years in the "warm bed" and found it had too many different men in it none of them staying for long, I spent the "cheque" and found all the money and Pleasures i could buy have still left me spiritually empty, and the "New job" in other faiths proved not to be as fullfilling as having a relationship with jehovah, so in that sense I've tried your offer and found it wasn't as good.

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

hi eyes open

the reviews on this book are not promising :S I always check reviews first :)

How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature
From Austin Cline,
Your Guide to Agnosticism / Atheism.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! Guide Rating - The Bible is one of the most important and influential books in Western civilization; despite this, few people have much detailed knowledge of it or even know how to read it properly. This is partly due to a decline in classical education, but also partly to a failure of religious leaders to teach people how to approach the text properly. Unfortunately, the prospects for improvement are poor.
Title: How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, And What It Means for Faith Today
Author: Steven L. McKenzie
Publisher: Oxford University Press
ISBN: 0195161491
Pro:
• Clear explanations of the genres used in the Bible
• Good discussion of how to understand the intentions of the authors of the texts
Con:
• Does not explain why the biblical authors’ intentions are the only or best basis for interpretation of literature
Description:
• Exploration of how to read the Bible through the intentions of the authors
• Argues that the biblical writings cannot be disconnected from their cultural origins
• Disputes common, literalist readings of the Bible
Book Review
Interpretation is always a complicated task, one which involves interaction between the text, the reader’s expectations, and the intentions of the author. How these elements play off against each other help determine the reader’s understanding of what the text is supposed to mean — either in general or specifically for them.

To help people approach interpretation of the Bible in a more informed manner, Steven L. McKenzie has written the book How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature - Why Modern Readers Need to Know the Difference, And What It Means for Faith Today. McKenzie’s basic thesis is relatively simple: we can best understand what a biblical text means by understanding what the author originally intended, but since we don’t have access to the author’s original notes or interviews, we have to rely on circumstantial evidence in the text itself. One important but often ignored clue is the genre of the text itself: all textual interpretation depends in part upon what a text’s genre is, and this has to include biblical texts as well. We can’t reasonably interpret the Bible without our interpretations being informed by how a text’s genre (historiography, wisdom literature, apocalyptic literature, letters) structures and informs the content.
McKenzie’s writing, research, and arguments are all very strong — but does he actually accomplish his goals? That’s harder to say.

Liberal religious believers will likely read this book and nod in agreement, finding confirmation for what they were already thinking as well as support for their positions. Conservative religious believers may be less sympathetic, disagreeing at almost every point of McKenzie’s arguments. Why the difference?
The key, I think, will lie with disagreements over the basic premises. In the first place, conservative believers won’t always agree that humans are the original authors of these texts — and even where they are somehow the “author,” ultimately it is God’s intentions which count, not the human hands which God guided. There is no way to respond to such objections from within McKenzie’s argument.
In the second place, there is reasonable basis for disagreeing over what role the authors’ intent should be accorded in the first place. Just because the author intended a book to be read in one way a thousand years ago, does this constrain us to read it in the exact same manner today? Perhaps a biblical text was intended as biting commentary on the politics of its day, but couldn’t it be read now as providing spiritual insight on the nature of humanity?
How to Read the Bible: History, Prophecy, Literature
The same is true of any ancient text: Plato may have had one intention in writing any particular dialogue, but philosophers today aren’t bound to adhere to that intention when interpreting the meaning and significance of the ideas today.
McKenzie is correct in his criticism of those who insist that these texts have to be read as literal histories and/or as being about our own time. Such insistence can legitimately be described as misreading, but it is arguable that McKenzie is making a similar error when he insists that biblical texts must be read according to the intentions of their authors.
McKenzie’s purpose is to provide readers with a way to accept biblical stories that can’t be literally true, thus preventing them from dismissing the Bible entirely. In this I’m sure he will succeed — but that’s a relatively narrow purpose without much lasting impact, I suspect. It might have been a more interesting work had he explored a variety of ways to read biblical texts with the intent of demonstrating that the literalist approach, while not completely invalid, is by no means the only or best approach for most of the Bible.

hmmm I am not sure I want to undemine my literal faith in the bible, My dislike of becoming an atheist/agnostic is that I really don't want to be stuck without the hope.

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

Good morning Jwfacts

you make valid points on the wts, a part of what i will be exploring in my future studies is if they are correct in all this 'anointed' 'great crowd' stuff, It doesn't help that other christian faiths avoid exploring the future aspects of the bible and just say we either goto heaven or hell, The bible talks a lot on what we can aspect on heaven and on earth and these do need to be addressed not ignored or else why did they get written about? but are the wts correct in how they interpretate it, I'll be honest I have yet to explore this issue deeply but i certainly will :)

223

Diary of a thinking to return ex-Jw

by reniaa in

i thought long and hard about posting this but the mis-information on this site finally persuaded me, i already accept many may not accept what i say on face value and get their appologist pens ready for making sure no pro-witness propaganda slips through the net on this site but here goes....... i've been on this forum for a few months my first post was about how i was thinking of returning to jw's and at my sisters recommendation to look at this site for both sides of the story before taking that step.. i faded from jw's 10/11 years ago now i left my hubby at the time divorced him to going on to have more relationships and kids, i was definately given the impression after asking on this site and with what i read that if i tried to return i might face df or at least a jc but definately a couple of elders questioning me over what i've been upto these last few years - none of these have happened.

i talked with an old jw friend (yes i do have then and she never shunned me quite happily accepted an offer of coffee from me and my asking for a chat) i told her i was interested in going back and was very frank about what i done in the last 10 years but not sure how returning was done now, she quite happily said she go ask for me to find out.. result!

she came back this week and said "all i had to do was goto meetings again" and an offer of a study was there for me if i wanted it to explore the open doubts that i had expressed i now had.. not quite the fire and brimstone welcome this site led me to believe would happen.. i will keep you posted with further updates if i feel the need to put them in future.. .

reniaa

hi Eyes Open thank you for your recommendations I will look at it if I can find it on ebay to buy lol, but thankyou for the info, I think you'll find most of my replies are bible focused and i view the wts as a useful but imperfect tool :)