just wondering, is there any information as to how big it was?
how did desert wanders carry around so much gold?
wouldn't it have encumbered them?
on the whole gold grinding erm info we do know God himself gave metalurgy knowledge to certain of moses's people so ark could be made to house the commandments
secondly covering wood with a thin layer of gold was a common egyptian practise when making idols, but whatever was used it may always be a mystery, in other centuries chemists simply thought God had enabled Moses to beccomes a master alchemist able to add something to gold to help grind it down,
ok. here is another question about the golden calf story.. just suppose this is some sort of allegory or symbolic message.
why would they choose a calf as opposed to a bull or a cow?.
a bull, i could understand.
does the poster never use wikipedia?
The golden calf (??? ????) was an idol (a cult image) made for the Israelites during Moses' absence, as he went up to Mount Sinai. According to the Hebrew Bible, the calf was made by Aaron to satisfy the Israelites, whereas the Quran indicates the maker to be Samiri.
In Hebrew, the incident is known as "Chet ha'Egel" (??? ????) or "The Sin of the Calf". It is first mentioned in Exodus32:4 (Taha20:83 in the Quran). In Egypt, whence the Hebrews had recently come, the Apis Bull was the comparable object of worship, which the Hebrews were reviving in the wilderness. Among the Egyptians' and Hebrews' neighbors in the Ancient Near East and in the Aegean, the Aurochs, the wild bull, was widely worshipped, often as the Lunar Bull and as the creature of El. Its Minoan manifestation survived as the Cretan Bull of Greek myth
baal is also represented by a calf and a later israelite king who turned to baal worship jeroboam built 2 golden calf statues to baal.
People have always had a tendency to want to build images because we like to see and touch what we believe in, that God has always been against this since the first 2 commandments cover worshiping false Gods and making images to represent God is also a given so unfortunately in this sense there has always been a conflict.
november 15 study edition, p24 para 5.. "regarding his "thorn in the flesh", paul made fervent pleas to jehovah (the scripture actually says the lord) read 2 cor 12: 8 - 10) god did not miraculously relieve paul of the "thorn in the flesh".
instead, god strengthened him to endure it.
jehovah's (whose???
hi mary
I'm just trying to point out a rule of thumb which is "Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack" just because the earliest copies we have don't use the tetragramation it doesn't mean it never was there! and howard an obvious trinitarian by his letter backing the 'deity of christ' can still say he sees that from earliest copies it could have been there, means we have to recognise there was a chance it was.
I have heard people on this forum use the lack of tetragramation in new testament as a support for the jesus is God argument, which is really making a massive leap even if it wasn't even in original copies which we don't have.
Even so, it's still highly dubious the way the NWT took the liberty of inserting "Jehovah" into thousands of verses in the Christian Greek scriptures
in the Old testament YHWH is used 6800 time officially no one argues with that at all, God definately wanted us to know his name in the OT
Jehovah's witnesses have inserted Jehovah in the New Testament 237 times not thousands as you stated, it could have been thousands but on the whole they only placed it were OT scriptures are quoted from, they did add it with some none OT quoting scriptures but you'll have to decide for yourself if they were right to in those cases..
i have seen a few from other countries but this one had me going huh!!!.
http://www.channel4.com/video/make-me-a-christian/catchup.html.
reverend george hargreaves and his team continue with the group of volunteers from leeds and teach them a more 'christian' way of life in the hope it can halt the country's moral decline.. it's a group of 4 church clergy, from different christian faiths getting together to teach a group of random non-christians about god, it's format is very much like one of these makover programs were you get a team of experts to makover someone or there house, .
I have seen a few from other countries but this one had me going HUH!!!
http://www.channel4.com/video/make-me-a-christian/catchup.html
Reverend George Hargreaves and his team continue with the group of volunteers from Leeds and teach them a more 'Christian' way of life in the hope it can halt the country's moral decline.
It's a group of 4 church clergy, from different christian faiths getting together to teach a group of random non-christians about God, it's format is very much like one of these makover programs were you get a team of experts to makover someone or there house,
What struck me was they have a an evangelical priest as leader, a lay priest, a CofE priest and a catholic priest all working together teaching at various times their different faiths, I finally gave up when they went into peoples homes took away sinful items erm naughty picture etc and the catholic priest gave them a picture of the pope to put up on the wall instead
I hope this link works for you guys it's on Channel 4 online
november 15 study edition, p24 para 5.. "regarding his "thorn in the flesh", paul made fervent pleas to jehovah (the scripture actually says the lord) read 2 cor 12: 8 - 10) god did not miraculously relieve paul of the "thorn in the flesh".
instead, god strengthened him to endure it.
jehovah's (whose???
I just wanted to point out that if the most ancient of copies can make at least one expert sit up and say you know we don't have the originals so there is a logical chance by looking at this that they recognise the tetragramation,
This probably something we'll never know and if we did find a manuscript that contained it, I don't think it would rock the world, people would just explain it away as them quoting from OT scriptures lol and yet it's lack is used to try and prove trinity ^^
november 15 study edition, p24 para 5.. "regarding his "thorn in the flesh", paul made fervent pleas to jehovah (the scripture actually says the lord) read 2 cor 12: 8 - 10) god did not miraculously relieve paul of the "thorn in the flesh".
instead, god strengthened him to endure it.
jehovah's (whose???
this is another instance I wish we did have earlier translations of NT I found this interesting info though in wiki
One of the most ancient fragments, the papyrus codex designated Chester Beatty Papyrus No. 2 P46, is dated prior to AD 200 and contains nine of the Apostle Paul's letters. In the Chester Beatty Papyri, we find ?S and sometimes TS with a horizontal bar above them in citations of the Hebrew Bible where the Tetragrammaton occurs in the Hebrew text. These are abbreviations for kyrios (?????? "lord") and theos (?e?? "God") normally known as nomina sacra ("sacred names"). The abbreviations may not have been part of the autographs but may have been substituted as a shorthand some time later. An alternative thesis has been advanced that YHWH would have been present in NT autographs only to be substituted by the nomina sacra.
An article by George Howard in the March 1978 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review set forth this thesis that YHWH appeared in the New Testament and that "the removal of the Tetragrammaton from the New Testament and its replacement with the surrogates kyrios and theos blurred the original distinction between the Lord God and the Lord Christ." [1] His position was included in his article in the Anchor Bible Dictionary, where he stated: "There is some evidence that the Tetragrammaton, the Divine Name, Yahweh, appeared in some or all of the OT quotations in the NT when the NT documents were first penned." [2]
ok, so in the gilbert simental molestation case, the elders hid behind clergy client privilege.
but why didn't they want to speak out against a molester?
why did they not happily say,"yes, ole brother gilbert told us what he did"?
So should a government tells us if a child-molester newly out of prison is housed near the vulnerable?Hmmm....lets see. Do you have children reniaa? If a man got out of prison after spending the last 3 or 4 years in there for raping children, would you want to be informed if the scumbag was living right next to you? I can't believe you would even ask a question like this.
Absolutely I would want to know and because i'm a peaceful person, i'd probably just sign petitions to oust him out of the area but others would harass and attack a named person in the area maybe to point of killing him and the british government can't just turn a blind eye to it especially if they have served the prison term for which they were sentenced, how does the american government deal with this issue?
ok, so in the gilbert simental molestation case, the elders hid behind clergy client privilege.
but why didn't they want to speak out against a molester?
why did they not happily say,"yes, ole brother gilbert told us what he did"?
I agree with wasaelder on this one, but also it's to easy to make snap judgements and dangerous too because it's leads into a mindset of seeing this as a Jw issue only;
On reading write up this case this was put towards the end
The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Roman Catholic Church are not the only religious groups to be sued and accused of concealing child sexual abuse.
Similar lawsuits have been filed against other religious organizations across the nation.
Seattle-based attorney Timothy D. Kosnoff said he has handled 25 cases against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for people seeking to recover damages for alleged abuse. He has 11 cases pending.
He said the legal battles being waged on the confidentiality privilege issue in child sex-abuse cases provide a sense of what matters to Americans.
WItnesses have been wrong but not alone in their wrongdoing, pedophilia is a world-wide issue, for example human rights groups are fighting for people in this country to be informed if a child-molester is housed near them, but saying when some people in a small villaged found out about a molester in their mist they burned his house down.
So should a government tells us if a child-molester newly out of prison is housed near the vulnerable?
maybe for the same reason the bible namecalls:.
sinners.
undeserving.
You missed one out Who are you....
I'm motivated by the bible.....it is my first love and I can't divorce OT from NT, and when God commited genocide in noahs day how do people justify that, Did Jesus condemn his father for noah's flood? or himself if you are a christian who believes jesus is God therefore, he himself was responsible for the flood and any other extreme actions concerning law-breaking, we wouldn't have to worry about pedophiles then they were just taken away and killed.
I often point out how most Wts doctrines have scriptorial origins and christian faith origins, as i've mention excommunication was widely practiced by catholics among many faiths lol I may have even ended up burned up as a witch in heretic times,
The main response to these from posters is JW's are so much worse in their way of dealing with these difficult doctrines.....
i was just curious---.
i assume that there are active jws that visit here.. any idea on the percent that the board has?
does it just seem to be a very few or is it a substantial number?.
What is their aim, goal, purpose, etc.?
Are you guys trying to win us all back into the borg, vomit, all of the other words that make the borg look bad?
Can you tell it's not working?
What do you hope to gain by posting here?
whitedove
Redirecting whitedove to above post on ad hominen arguments.....
Also forgive me if i'm wrong but didn't Simon start this as a genuine Jehovah's witness discussion group as an active witness originally? (my sister told me this)
Are you suggesting whitedove our opinions are unwelcome on here now because of our status as pro-witnesses?( I won't lie answering this in the affirmative is a big hot potato because it smacks of hypocracy)
I did check out a new splinter group, now this one is closing called 'Jehovah witness support forum' but after having read the small print in their info sections, I think moderaters will be directed on it to get rid of posters who put forth any defense of Wts but i be could wrong I have no intention of testing it, i'm letting this be my one and only venture into Jw internet discussion groups. and when simon closes it, I will give him genuine thanks for allowing me to express my views without censure.
