Posts by reniaa

33

For those with family members who are shunning you could try them with this

by reniaa in

please, its from the wts society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply.

disfellowshipping is a very serious matter.17 the apostle paul wrote that christians should "quit mixing in company" with persons who unrepentantly reject certain scriptural standards.18 this is strong counsel, but jehovahs witnesses obey it.

however, contrary to muramotos assertions, when a family member is disfellowshipped, personal ties and non-spiritual association are not terminated.

reniaa

thankyou for your replies people, :)

I have no idea when I will go back its not an easy thing for me to do because of circumstances beyond my control but if I do go back this is one rule i'll be trying to change from within,

I hope the article proves useful because I think it is worth printing it off and sending to family members that have really enforced the shunning rule abitarily, fighting fire with fire sometimes works and the words of a wt lawyer's intepretation may in print may sway them, sermon on mount is a good quote for me lol.

33

For those with family members who are shunning you could try them with this

by reniaa in

please, its from the wts society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply.

disfellowshipping is a very serious matter.17 the apostle paul wrote that christians should "quit mixing in company" with persons who unrepentantly reject certain scriptural standards.18 this is strong counsel, but jehovahs witnesses obey it.

however, contrary to muramotos assertions, when a family member is disfellowshipped, personal ties and non-spiritual association are not terminated.

reniaa

thx flipper and llbh,

if I could change anthing in the wts shunning would be it, anyway if any wts writers see this I hope they can put these words unmistakably in a watchtower so people know even if spiritual fellowship is lost the love is still there, I personally would extend it outside the family too, I think being so strict only hurts the Wts, Jesus may have accepted people turned away but he always treated them with love like judas, and he always talked lovingly to them.

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," [a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." [b] 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

33

For those with family members who are shunning you could try them with this

by reniaa in

please, its from the wts society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply.

disfellowshipping is a very serious matter.17 the apostle paul wrote that christians should "quit mixing in company" with persons who unrepentantly reject certain scriptural standards.18 this is strong counsel, but jehovahs witnesses obey it.

however, contrary to muramotos assertions, when a family member is disfellowshipped, personal ties and non-spiritual association are not terminated.

reniaa

please, its from the WTS society and may help you, if the family who are witnesses have taking the shunning issue too deeply

Disfellowshipping is a very serious matter. 17 The apostle Paul wrote that Christians should "quit mixing in company" with persons who unrepentantly reject certain scriptural standards. 18 This is strong counsel, but Jehovah’s Witnesses obey it. However, contrary to Muramoto’s assertions, when a family member is disfellowshipped, personal ties and non-spiritual association are not terminated. The very passage from the 1981 Watchtower that Muramoto quotes in his first paper disproves his point. That passage shows that it is spiritual association that is terminated:
"A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family members - while acknowledging family ties - will no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him. 19
That same Watchtower article explained that marital ties would not be severed if one’s mate were to be disfellowshiped: "similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshipped blood and family ties remain. ... If a minor child is disfellowshipped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline." 8 In short, "family ties continue. ... A man who is disfellowshiped ... may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children since his being disfellowshiped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue." 20

http://www.ajwrb.org/jme/jmef.htm

its in the paragraph 'freedom of choice'

note that it says "normal family affections and dealings can continue." that they are only spiritually cut off

I don't know if this can help those suffering from family shunning but its worth a try I hope :)

reniaa

72

Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid!

by nicolaou in

after several years 'out' i can't be the only one who still gets a bit pissed off to hear 'oh so clever' apostates slagging off jw's for being dumb, stupid and worse.

grow up!

the beliefs of jehovah's witnesses are certainly stupid but then i'd say the same for all christian belief just as many of you might condemn my atheistic, evolutionary postion as being nonsense.

reniaa

hey jgnat, you'd have found me more simpathetic to your way of studying when i was an active witness but one thing you learn is if someone just isn't interested you walk away, a cult hell bent on brainwashing would have hung in there longer:) if you think of me as a problem on this site trust me as an active witness i wasn't exactly mainstream either lol and wouldn't be if i went back, Just think how annoying i would be if i got disfellowshipped and just kept on going to a kingdom hall without being phased if i felt they were unjust in df-ing me, shunning wouldn't phase me either and if i got people interested while df-d (because i wouldn't stop preaching even if not going on the doors) i'd pass the person on to an elder.

now lets get to that mind control list :) from oops one of the other posters :)

Have you read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan?
If not, I recommend you do so.
Here's a quick list of things to ask when determining if a group is harmful, high control, cultish etc. (my answers about JW's in brackets)
1 - Are you trying to recruit me? (Yes)
2 - Who is the top leader? (The GB have god-like status to the rank and file, see lines forming to meet them at conventions etc)
3 - What does your group believe? (That Jehovah will soon destroy everyone not a JW)
4 - Is deception allowed in certain circumstances? (yes - theocratic warfare, incomplete disclosure of all beliefs during recruitment phase)
5 - Once I join do I have to quit school, donate money and property and cut myself off from friends and family who oppose my membership? (that will be 3/3 yes's there)
6 - Is your group considered controversial by anyone? (erm yes)
7 - Does your group impose restrictions on communicating with former members? (erm yes a few)
8 - What else would your rather do in life rather than be a member? (likely answer from JW - "nothing")
Based on my own experience and those of many others, research such as reading works by Steve Hassan and others I have no hesitation as classifying the WTS as a high control group - call it cultic or brainwashing if you will - but their pattern of behaviour assigns them no matter how loudly they lie, cry and deny

1 - Are you trying to recruit me? ( " 7 As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near." mathew 10:7)

2 - Who is the top leader? ( Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read:|sc JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.)

3 - What does your group believe? ( 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. )

4 - Is deception allowed in certain circumstances? I disagree with this above point every JW teaching is disclosed even disfellowshipping/blood/preaching work before baptism you'll need to provide proof that it isn't! because my experience is all teachings past and present are on the table hense why with wts are so easy to research back issues.

5 - Once I join do I have to quit school, donate money and property and cut myself off from friends and family who oppose my membership? (* 25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.)

6 - Is your group considered controversial by anyone? ( 22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.)

8 - What else would your rather do in life rather than be a member? 37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I'm afraid jesus and the first century christians didn't past your test either!

72

Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid!

by nicolaou in

after several years 'out' i can't be the only one who still gets a bit pissed off to hear 'oh so clever' apostates slagging off jw's for being dumb, stupid and worse.

grow up!

the beliefs of jehovah's witnesses are certainly stupid but then i'd say the same for all christian belief just as many of you might condemn my atheistic, evolutionary postion as being nonsense.

reniaa

hi jgnat Aren't we all a little predjudiced in what we ourselves decide to believe and in what believe we end up defending it? I looked at your links they were good ( they were interesting and do show excommunition/shunning is an excepted biblically drawn discipline by many christian faiths if not widely used) but they only confirm what I know that descipline written down exists but is it put into practise? But that also a deep knowledge of the flock is needed and my next questions would be how well do people interact within their church, my knowledge is limited in that I agree with you there.

You see with so many faiths you get allsorts from church faiths with one vicar for an entire flock and other faiths were they are at-home ones were meeting/church attendance isn't a prerequisite, or they are like my pentacostal ex's were they confess a sin prayer for repentence and it's just let go nothing more is done. Or the witnesses that are fairly strict in all aspects of the religion but even then you can't go into peoples homes and know what is done behind closed curtains,

lol I do agree my way of working through issues is somewhat different! :) I won't say perculiar.

But I shall answer this thread seriously and that is No I don't think the witnsses are stupid, but I don't think they are brainwashed either, the length of time a study takes is at the minimum 6 months is long enough for anyone to do research into it, It's just a faith you either believe or don't, born-in may have some grounds for saying they had no choice but I am one of 7 born in siblings and atm the only one with witness leanings so the teachings do not grip you to that degree even born-in get the chance to decide if they believe the teachings or not, Someone may stay in due to not wanting to lose family due to shunning but their mind is still free, to me brainwashing promotes the idea that we are mentally held captive too but again the amount that leave would discount this hypothesis, If a person can reason there way in and out of a belief easily then brainwashing doesn't apply.,

72

Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid!

by nicolaou in

after several years 'out' i can't be the only one who still gets a bit pissed off to hear 'oh so clever' apostates slagging off jw's for being dumb, stupid and worse.

grow up!

the beliefs of jehovah's witnesses are certainly stupid but then i'd say the same for all christian belief just as many of you might condemn my atheistic, evolutionary postion as being nonsense.

reniaa

lol this topic is funny, Judging how many people have realised they can't call Witnesses stupid without calling themselves stupid for being wtnesses once and so instead we heard long meanderings of how some maybe are and others are just poor deluded victims or others grew up and realised it was wrong by virtue of being an adult, you can easily see at which point they became witnesses and at what age they left.

The nicest comments are probs those that were witnesses the longest :S

I wonder if the poster realised what a double-edge sword this topic would be ^^

62

If God is love, you cannot fear him

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

you will find a host of books and articles that discuss the polar opposites of love and fear.

the bible shows two opposing gods.

personally, i believe god is love and the angry god of fear is an imposter.

reniaa

can we have some proof texts/links that translating the word fear in the bible was incorrect rather than just personal statements please!

72

Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid!

by nicolaou in

after several years 'out' i can't be the only one who still gets a bit pissed off to hear 'oh so clever' apostates slagging off jw's for being dumb, stupid and worse.

grow up!

the beliefs of jehovah's witnesses are certainly stupid but then i'd say the same for all christian belief just as many of you might condemn my atheistic, evolutionary postion as being nonsense.

reniaa

This is a case of what is your poison! everyone has varying beliefs.

Name-calling like "Stupid" etc says more about the sayer than the receiver.

15

IMO ~ Who Is The Evil Slave And How Can We Tell?

by Flash in

imo - who is the evil slave and how we can tell?.

matthew 7: 15 ~ 23 'by their fruits you will recognise them.'.

it's apparent by their conduct, that after waiting 35 years and seeing 1914 fail to bring armageddon, the slave that was faithful turned evil.

reniaa

This also has no basis in reality if you don't do it as a comparative study with other christian faiths and their practices over time, to just do this reasoning on one group alone with no comparison to others is missaplying it at best and downright missleading the reader at worst.

27

Mothers of any age what is your opinion....?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

this is not based on polictics.

it is based on what you would personally do in a specific circumstance.

please do not base your answer on a democratic or republican response.

reniaa

depends on the person, I see mothers that drink alcohol and smoke during pregnancy not realising that both are worse than drugs for damaging a fetus during pregnacy especially in brain forming early weeks,

For me pregnancy was hard and worrying for all my children, in that situation a mum thinks of getting to hospital as quickly and safely as she can., even a few weeks premature can lead to complications only trained people can deal with for both mother and child, self-preservation would be an equal motivation in this case as well as the maternal bond