Posts by reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

HI Outlaw, lets put this to rest shall we? here is your first post...

Reniaa..One of the worst things most JW`s do.Is paint everyone who disagree`s with them,with the same brush..You`ve done the same in your first post on this thread.....You assume everyone who doesn`t agree with the JW`s,does not believe in the bible.....Lets go with "Christmas" as an example.....JW`s don`t believe in Christmas..Why?..Because the WBT$ says so!Not because they have read they`re bible..If a JW would actually read they`re bible without the WBT$ Bullsh*t interpretation.They would learn who were actually the first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus.....The Bible says,when Jesus was born.The angel`s "Rejoiced"..If you have a Thesaurus,look up the word Rejoice..Your Thesaurus will show you,another word for Rejoice,is Celebrate.....The "Angels" were the very first,to Celebrate the Birth of Jesus..Clearly it`s not a pagan celebration.God`s own "Angels"were the first to do it..That makes the WBT$ "LIARS"in claiming it is a Pagan celebration..What proves that the WBT$ are Liar`s?..The Bible!!....Would you rather follow the example of the Angels in the Bible and celebrate the Birth of Jesus?..Or..A multi Billion dollar Publishing Company(WBT$) that is caught in lie`s on a regular basis and tells it`s followers not to celebrate the Birth of Jesus?....................I would like a response to my post..Thanks........................ ...OUTLAW

I've answered the rejoice part in this post here for the 3rd time

Outlaw was trying to make the point that angels rejoicing in the bible was a celebration/party and my reply was to basically say erm it's just rejoicing. Now on this I will let the reader use there own judgement, I used a dictionary were you get a straight definition rejoicing is exactly what it is rejoicing, Outlaw had to use a thesaurus to support his view through synonyms because first he's changing rejoice to celebrate then using the fact you have 2 meanings to celebrate one is to rejoice the other is to have a party. On this premise I can pretty much get anything to mean anything, I can get from circle to square using only synonyms. lol I will leave it you you guys to decide which of us is twisting meanings to their own ends :)

now you next question is....

Would you rather follow the example of the Angels in the Bible and celebrate the Birth of Jesus?..Or..A multi Billion dollar Publishing Company(WBT$) that is caught in lie`s on a regular basis and tells it`s followers not to celebrate the Birth of Jesus?

How can I answer this question unless i agree with it? this is a logical fallacy because the question only applies to me if i accept the statement I have highlighted that you make in the first part of the question as right and as you know from my posts I do not accept that rejoice and happiness at the birth of jesus birth by angels a one off event can suddenly become toutamount to celebration the way you apply it! using synonyn trickery and a word that in it's usage can cover praise and rejoicing of a one off event to observing an event in a yearly fashion with all it's rituals. Words having multiple meanings is a factor of any language and context is how we judge that meaning,

Outlaw you are a naughty puppy for trying word and question trickery like this :( and i answer this now fully so you can't say i haven't addressed you first post anymore Outlaw

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi lisaAnn

Hi Renniaa,
I believe you are an honest person and would tell the truth. Could you please answer me this question: Does your congregation consider you an active publisher?
Thanks

I have nothing to lose by being honest, I am atm still working on going back I am having an on/off study with a view to that because its been over 10 years since I stopped going to meetings. I did get to the memorial this year though, I'm not sure I would ever qualify as a publisher I have a severely disabled son and am his fulltime carer, I am in the middle of changing him from tegretol to kepra epilepsy drugs which is causing side effect issues among other things so study is off atm but I'm hoping to restart soon, I don't get out much so even meetings would be difficult. This debate forum has really helped me explore many issues I had. Many on here accuse me of being an active witness lol even an elders wife on occasion! maybe they just can't conceive that someone is just boringly normal and exactly what they say they are.

reniaa

26

Off to the one day special assembly day - what can I look forward to?

by eyeslice in

i never attend any of the congregation meetings but to support my wife, i attend the assemblies and the memorial.

tomorrow is the one day special assembly day.

should i be getting excited?

reniaa

Thats a kind thing to do for your wife :) whatever you do or don't get from it.

reniaa

40

The End is Here....The JWs gleefully watch the economy crash!

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

dont these idiots know yet that when it goes it takes them too?

have they not learned from the depression?

or either world war?

reniaa

ern this is the third thread on this forum on the tribulation...are you sure your not the ones being gleeful?

Personaly I just worried this depression means food prices going up more /sigh

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

I am sure that our 'persecution' of Reniaa is further proof that she has the 'truth'

hehe nope isaacaustin just bad debating techniques and unworthy of what can be a good discussion, It also usually marks the end of a topic when the meat of the debate is all behind us.

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

i'm sorry isaacaustin I guess I wasn't really clear on the point I was trying to make which was that the rituals of these forgotten pagan festivals have a great a hold on us. And that people couldn't conceive of not doing them or changing the date they observe jesus's birthday on, people find change hard.

I don't want to keep banging on about christmas it's taken what I really wanted to discuss right off topic and considering the replies i've had it's an old well discussed topic.

I appologise to those that feel I have not answered or addressed their questions enough but I really want to keep this thread more on topic now and only address people staying within the topic of "If it's Just the Jw's they've left and not the God of the bible?" although i think we may have pretty muched covered it .

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi Onthewayout, may I start by apologising i've allowed this thread to become seriously off it's original topic and I sometimes wish the moderaters on here could do what i've found on other forums, that is if a part of a topic takes on a life of it's own they'll split it off under another heading. I'm going to have to be strict with posters on future threads and say i'll only answer on topic questions and viewpoints.

Now on what you said

I admit where I use a certain viewpoint, yet I acknowledge that mine is not the only viewpoint that
might be valid. Thanks for acknowledging that your words may have been too attacking.
I like the general thread topic and understand your reasons for asking it.
As far as Jesus addressing sex before marriage, I personally believe that the philosophical answers
from Jesus (as I don't accept the Bible as the Word anymore) were indicating that it is impossible to
abstain from fornication in the heart. Beyond adultery, I think he was trying to indicate how the Jews
could best TRY to live up to God's standards and apply them personally in life. I don't think Jesus was
trying to set a new set of rules. Paul, on the other hand, probably was setting new rules. So I tend to
side with you that the Bible indicates that sex before marriage is wrong.
Having said all that, others will disagree with the intent of Jesus' words and how the Jews might have
understood them. They might argue that the Jews misunderstood Jesus' words. My point is that
all people need to decide how to apply the Bible, if at all, in their lives. If some want to apply Jesus'
words and give a different weight to Paul's words in the NT, they can justify homosexuality or premarital
sex. The Bible indicates that we all fall short of the ideal, so do the best we can

I do agree with most of what you say, I certainly agree that others may disagree with the intent and say jews misunderstood but I would argue that jesus brought up as a jew would know how his words would be taken when talking to other jews, he wasn't afraid of condemning openly what he considered wrong and made it clear.

Unlike you I still accept the bible and have hope but I can understand were you are coming from I've nearly gone there a number of times especially when you can see if someone wants to believe something enough they will use any argument they can lol thats true of JW's and any other believer of any faith or non-faith. you see it mainly when they respond to your post only highlighted the bits they can argue with and ignore what they wish to avoid tackling but we all do that.

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays' so i find my non-JW family get me no presents at all but ones that used to be JW's or still are do make an effort to buy presents outside of the allowed set events for them . One thing you do noticei s that as you say its not just the children that need set markers to do things by but adults too.
Wow that sounds like it's straight out of the WT. That is the same thing my mom used to tell us, "worldly kids only get presents on their birthday and christman, you get them all year". Well that's Bull$hite, I brought my kids things all the time and everyone I know does the same thing. As a JW my parents were the biggest liars because we didn't get things all the time nor did we get things on holidays.
nj

It may sound like a but it's what my experiences were, I do try and buy the presents for everyone, I won't say it isn't hard without the reminders like christmas and birthdays you can easily slip into not giving presents, I would say you have to be a little more determined. If you tell me you buy presents for people and children outside of set events and don't use the oft heard phrase "wait till Christmas" then i'll believe you but i ask only for the same respect when I relate my experiences.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

Guys attacking me rather than my points is resorting to adhominen arguments and as bad as the circular arguments you accuse me of! you can do it but hopefully the reader will decern its just another tactic to throw doubt on my opinions.

I'm also beginning to think some of you are just skimming the posts because you seem to be missing many of my replies or misreading them.

Yes Mary,
I think if nothing else...many of us have learned to critically think to to deconstruct assertions built on faulty logic.

Isaacaustin you say this but can you really then say critical thinking means you can justify saying it's ok to justify worshiping jesus on a day that has no connection with him other than been picked out of a hat? why is my logic faulty and yours right in this?

Ok why don't we just pick a day in september and change jesus's birthday to it? keep Yuletide in december 25th as just another holiday with it's pagan rituals but have jesus's birthday on another day nearer to his birth? it was men that changed it before we can change it again now, why not?

OR alternatively could any of you imagine doing christmas as a holiday but not doing any of the rituals normally associated with it? could people do that? really make a conscious decision to not to buy a tree or put up lights, holly etc how would it feel would you enjoy it less?

hi there jgnat, it depends on the parent if children have a dull childhood with the feastivals trimmed out, Mean parents, the type that even if they celebrated christmas would put a pair of socks in wrapping and buy soap-on-rope for great aunty edna whose getting a little bit whiffy lately will enjoy the opportunity to save money, but genuine loving parents take time to make sure their child has fun and enjoyment with plenty of toys and parties.

That being said I am often accused of spoiling my children because I find the concept of buying presents all year round quite hard for non-JWs to take on board, there is definitely a 'Presents are only for christmas or birthdays' so i find my non-JW family get me no presents at all but ones that used to be JW's or still are do make an effort to buy presents outside of the allowed set events for them. One thing you do noticei s that as you say its not just the children that need set markers to do things by but adults too.

20

NOW that JWD is ending where is everyone going...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

have you joined other exjw discussion boards if so list them here....

reniaa

None for me JWS probs wouldn't let contraversial me on, I read the small print i'd be out quicker than a strike of lightning, I do keep trying to leave this one but the need for debate keeps drawing me back. When simon ends JWD he will be taking the temptation away :)