Posts by Moxie

106

There is so much evidence around us to prove an Intelligent creator.

by nicolaou in

that's an 'ever so slightly' adapted quote from tophat on another thread; http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/108341/2880755/post.ashx#2880755.

i've been really dismissive of god/s, religion, faith and the abandoning of reason but when it comes to the 'argument from design', well you just have to give it a bit more .

respect?

Moxie

How can we start off this debate about intelligent design and can we all agree to try and keep it civil?

Hi Nicolaou :)

I really respect that you're starting an objective and civil debate on this topic. Personally, for years I really didn't know what to think. I thought perhaps there was a combination of the two (creation and evolution) at work.

I'm now an Atheist, but that was the result of a lot of studying... and in the end that's what makes the most sense to me. I firmly believe that everyone has the right to believe what makes sense to them. Finding your own truth can only come from seeking impartial information.

If you're interested in researching evolutionary science and forming your own educated opinion I suggest reading Richard Dawkins... he has just published a fairly simple book called the God Delusion that discusses many of the main religious arguments on creation vs. evolution. I found it very interesting.

Cheers,

Moxie

21

I was "disinvited " to my younger brothers babies shower

by sosad in

because one of the jw invitees heard i was coming and was now part of babylon the great.

just to clarify - i am part of nothing in the religious sense- my kids and husband are very catholic but i am not.. i was invited and trying to get the address after making considerable efforts to attend due to plain old busy life.. it seems "new light" says i, a fader of over 20 years is not welcome to a gathering where jws are present.

but - not just jws - there would be many other religious denominations present in the form of aunts, grandmothers, parents etc.

Moxie

Awwww, I'm so sorry for you. That's such an unjust and painful thing to go through.... I understand completely, because I have been told that I will not be allowed to attend my brother's wedding... There are really no words to describe the frustration and hurt you must be feeling. I hope it helps in some small way to know that there are many others who understand and deeply sympathise with you...

Keep smiling...

Moxie

34

When you look back do you wonder how the hell you believed it all ?

by karter in

any takers

Moxie

Terrific Question... :)

To answer, I don't wonder how "I" believed it... I was raised as a witness. To quote my English Professor "you believe the reality which is presented to you."

Instead I ask myself the question, how did my parents come to believe it all? And further, as highly intelligent individuals, how do they continue to believe it?

Moxie

14

Personal observations Re: former religious members

by Zico in

it seems to me that many (not all) agnostics/atheists on here, as former jws, seem to grow quite an adversity to religion as a whole, seeing any kind of religion as harmful, and when they make such critism, those on the board who have maintained religious beliefs often point out to them that they need to distinguish between the effects a mainstream religion, and a high control religion has on someone's development.

i've generally found that people who had religious parents, but were raised in 'mainstream' or moderate religions but stopped attending don't hold any grudges or ill thought about the religion they were raised in as children, whereas those i know who were raised in the jehovah's witnesses and left, are usually quite anti-watchtower (myself included!

i thought about this, after a general discussion at work today, when a girl in my office, in her late 20s, and who was recently married made a comment that i found surprising.

Moxie

Personally, I've noticed that many people who are "fresh-out" of the witnesses say that they will raise their kids in it because (just as you mentioned) it's good for morals etc. It has been my observation though, that many, after time (myself included) they no longer feel that way; In fact they become quite opposed to raising their kids with the witnesses.

Born-again or Atheist, I believe it's all relative... a religious person may chose to carefully guide their child in a less all-consuming religion as the JW's whereas an Atheist will have to teach them without.

Overall, I believe that parents are familiar with the mechanism of religion to teach good morals since that is how we were taught. But does that mean it's the only way? I don't believe so... As the brilliant Richard Dawkins said, humankind has morals not because of religion but inspite of it. I think we just need to learn (and are learning) how to pass-down and instill good values and morals in our children without religion as a tool.

Moxie

259

What will you do when the Great Tribulation Begins?

by Malkiel in

i've always wanted to ask this question to those that have decided to leave the organization.. what will you do when the great tribulation begins?.

right now folks, a lot is happening in the political world.. gordon brown (prime miniter of england) last week gave a speech to the un stating that it is time for the un to step in and solve the world's problems, (specifically mentioning the economy and hunger crisis worldwide.).

barrack obama is shaping up to be the next president, a fellow who sure knows how to persuade and lead great crowds.

Moxie

If you look carefully, Freemasonry (sun worshipping) has laid the foundation to begin executing their 'secret' plan to give life to the UN, it in turn substitute all currency with one, and finally substitute all religions with the Craft (or Freemasonry).

To Malkeil: (I'm a little late entering this discussion)

To me, the above comment is indicative of your lack of understanding of world economics as well as objective historical fact. It just emphasizes to me how brainwashed you people really are. I believe that the only apocalypse we're going to see is the worsening of the oil crisis. Don't I wish there was a God to step in and sort that out for us ;)

I'm an Atheist, if it's possible for you to consider things from that perspective you would realize how misplaced your comments are. If there was a God, do you really think he'd need us to play conspiracy theorists for him?

Sorry if I'm snappy, but you caught me in a bad mood :) I'm usually a nice person...

Personally I come here to get away from the imposed theology of the witnesses... not to have it rammed down my throat again.

Peace out....

Moxie

edited: really, I'm normally really nice :) I respect your expression, I just don't agree with it at all...

9

The Miracle Wake up!

by Hope4Others in

memorial day we received a call from and elder in the local congregation.

his mother is a partaker, he mentions he could not get over with the invitation so was calling.

to invite us.

Moxie

Without sounding callous or inconsiderate, should the woman have passed away, the congregation would have hailed it as proof that the "generation" is passing away and just how close 'the end of the system' really is....

For the record I'm very happy that she is recovering and hope that she continues to get well...

Yet it just goes to show you how JW's unconsciously 'spin' their own propaganda...

*sigh*

39

Do you feel reading through the bible in the past has benefited you at all?

by Hope4Others in

putting the doctrine aside do you feel it has given you any advantages?

case in point my son posts on university sites and often the topic about the bible.

and god come up.

Moxie

"It is truly unfortunate that the bad experiences that many have had while being a JW has also turned them away from the Bible. It is definitely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
There are so many bitter comments on this site from people burned by the WTS. "

To NoMoreMeetings, I can appreciate your point of view. Yet I'd like to add that for many it is not simply the JW's that turned people away from the Bible, that in many cases is the catalyst, but is often a result of careful study and research. I myself have investigated, studied and read much, which has lead me to become an Atheist. This is not a bitter stance against the Watchtower, but rather my choice after much consideration.

I for one, respect each individual's right to believe what they wish; what makes sense to them (whether I believe it's correct or not). I do not presume to have the be-all-end-all answer for everything.

I think that people come here to vent their frustrations and to share in a community of non-judgement... if they want to make bitter comments, I say: so be it :)

... just my opinion

"Moxie"

26

"Bad" songs at JW weddings

by B_Deserter in

when i was in my teens, jw weddings were quite the social affair.

of course, the music was strictly regulated by the elders.

somehow though, in each wedding, someone managed to get the song "you shook me all night long" by ac/dc into the dj's rotation, and all of the "bad" witnesses would have a blast dancing to it.

Moxie

I remember a JW band playing Tush by ZZtop at a congregation get together once... lets just say that although everyone danced and had a great time, there was a lineup of suit-clad men standing on the side with their arms crossed (except for the one who was taking notes to "counsel" the brothers in the band later on).

39

Do you feel reading through the bible in the past has benefited you at all?

by Hope4Others in

putting the doctrine aside do you feel it has given you any advantages?

case in point my son posts on university sites and often the topic about the bible.

and god come up.

Moxie

They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger... and that pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole thing.

That said, having to read the bible from a very early age certainly helped to improve my vocabulary....

"Moxie"

49

Who has lost faith?

by logic&reason in

i am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.

once i started questioning the wt society, i began to question everything.

as jw's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.. .

Moxie

Being raised as a witness I naturally accepted that the Bible was true as well as the JW teachings... after I left I still had a resonating belief in the Bible.

Many years since, after reading the bible, studying history, science and other religions, I have come to the determination that the Bible is not word of God, nor that there is a God. I am now an Atheist. I believe that religion is Man's creation and an effective tool for domination and control down through the centuries.

As for losing faith, I don't feel that I have "lost" anything, rather that I have gained much.

"Moxie"