Posts by 10p

16

Don't bother recycling ... God will fix the earth

by 10p in

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20031122a/article_03.htm

just browsing the site for kicks, and this annoyed me.

typical jw attitude - with the readership they supposedly have, they could have made a real difference ... encouraged all jw's to recycle, buy carefully etc.

10p

In all fairness to the Borg (which I absolutely despise) I don't think they have ever espoused the view (often seen in other fundie religions) that they could pollute shamelessly and leave things in Jehovah's hands.

Yes, but actions speak louder than words. As we here all know, the Borg has a special way with words - they've never *really* said anything, in fact. Just like 1975.

I wonder if anyone can do the math ... how many square miles of forest have been torn up to print all the masses of publications that the Borg continually puts out? How many Kingom Hells have recycle bins so that the pubs can recycle their used watchtowers and old publications in? And why do JW's have a Watchtower study anyway? There is no biblical precedent for it. Whats wrong with a sunday sermon like most others? Why can't JWs preach using the bible alone? This would be more in line with bible itself anyway, and would do far less damage to the earth.

But of course, in their Machiavellian world-view, the Borg thinks they can do ANYTHING at all, if it "furthers the good news." Which includes committing harlotry with the wild beast, lying, raping the earth etc.

30

Judge rules JW elders must testify in molestation case

by pseattle2 in

this just went up on freeminds regarding the jw elders in southern california, who have so far been stonewalling about their private conversations with accused jw child molester gilbert simental... the judge in the case has issued an order for them to testify:.

(the judge) said... "it was more like a third-party investigation into immoral conduct."...

the judge said, the elders' duty was to determine guilt and to protect the congregation, not to keep the communications under wraps.

10p

Naturally, the faithful and discreet slave who brings you the truth that leads to eternal life has decided to appeal this ruling

Is the attorney, Miles Clark, in the pay of the Watchtower B&TS or in the pay of the accused?

16

Don't bother recycling ... God will fix the earth

by 10p in

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20031122a/article_03.htm

just browsing the site for kicks, and this annoyed me.

typical jw attitude - with the readership they supposedly have, they could have made a real difference ... encouraged all jw's to recycle, buy carefully etc.

10p

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20031122a/article_03.htm Just browsing the site for kicks, and this annoyed me. Typical JW attitude - with the readership they supposedly have, they could have made a real difference ... encouraged all JW's to recycle, buy carefully etc. But NO - they leave the problem in God's hands. imagine we all did this (although it seems George Bush has the same philosophy). And they lay the blame on 'humans' as if they somehow aren't human. Oh wait, they aren't! haha!

47

praying before a meal

by megaflower in

i have stopped.

it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.

it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks

10p

I go with Bart Simpson's prayer:

"Dear God, we pay for all this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing"

I don't give thanks for every breath I take, but these are more important than meals. I don't give thanks before I have a drink, and yet this is more vital for immediate survival. Why can't people give thanks for all the things that keep them alive at night before they go to bed? Giving thanks before the meal is just a ritual.

16

Retraining our WT-controlled minds - THE GAME 1

by Lady Lee in

inspired by the thread about a mom wearing pants to the kingdom hall i thought this might be a good way to help many of us to see the absurdity of some of the wts/jw rules "principles" .

i'll post one "rule" a day.

so let's start with the way men have to wear their hair.

10p

oh whoops. I see how the game works now. I lose that round. anyway, I'm sure the tattoo one will come up at some stage ... I'm just ahead of the game on that one :)

16

Retraining our WT-controlled minds - THE GAME 1

by Lady Lee in

inspired by the thread about a mom wearing pants to the kingdom hall i thought this might be a good way to help many of us to see the absurdity of some of the wts/jw rules "principles" .

i'll post one "rule" a day.

so let's start with the way men have to wear their hair.

10p

How about Tattoos

Cons
Bible says "do not make a mark on your flesh"
Wordly

Pros
Same bible verse says "do not shave your beard". pick and choose?
worldly? there are 6 billion people in 'the world'. anything a human could possibly do is done by some people in 'the world'. the world wipe their asses with TP, they wear shoes, and eat at restaurants. should witlesses not do those things either? this is a self-supporting argument. make a rule not to do something. all good jw's who obey the rule are then different from 'the world', where an example of this behaviour can always be found. which came first - the rule or the worldliness? was it worldly before the rule, or only after?

30

Evil, free will and the bible.

by Anti-Christ in

most christian and other deist will us the free will argument to explain the existence of god and evil.

in this topic i would like to examine the flaws in this argument.. what is free will?

it's the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives (that's one definition).

10p

Euth. How do you mean, Socrates?

Soc. I mean to say that the holy has been acknowledge by us to be loved of God because it is holy, not to be holy because it is loved.

Euth. Yes.

Soc. But that which is dear to the gods is dear to them because it is loved by them, not loved by them because it is dear to them.

Euth. True.

Soc. But, friend Euthyphro, if that which is holy is the same with that which is dear to God, and is loved because it is holy, then that which is dear to God would have been loved as being dear to God; but if that which dear to God is dear to him because loved by him, then that which is holy would have been holy because loved by him. But now you see that the reverse is the case, and that they are quite different from one another. For one (theophiles) is of a kind to be loved cause it is loved, and the other (osion) is loved because it is of a kind to be loved. Thus you appear to me, Euthyphro, when I ask you what is the essence of holiness, to offer an attribute only, and not the essence-the attribute of being loved by all the gods. But you still refuse to explain to me the nature of holiness. And therefore, if you please, I will ask you not to hide your treasure, but to tell me once more what holiness or piety really is, whether dear to the gods or not (for that is a matter about which we will not quarrel) and what is impiety?

Euth. I really do not know, Socrates, how to express what I mean. For somehow or other our arguments, on whatever ground we rest them, seem to turn round and walk away from us

30

Evil, free will and the bible.

by Anti-Christ in

most christian and other deist will us the free will argument to explain the existence of god and evil.

in this topic i would like to examine the flaws in this argument.. what is free will?

it's the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives (that's one definition).

10p

There is a great story told by Plato. Its in the dialogue 'Euthyphro'.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/euthyfro.html

You have to read it, I can't say it any better. You will notice the "Golden Rule" in there too, more eloquent and 400 years before Jesus! Oh sorry, I think the Golden Rule might be in 'Crito' ... read that too!

I think the story of the last moments of Socrates life is far more beautiful and inspiring than Jesus'. I suspect that Paul (Saul) studied at a Greek school and modelled much of his projection of Jesus on Socrates. I really do wonder if we'd have Christianity if it wasn't for Plato.

48

The Future of the Watchtower Society and the Internet

by DT in

jw
friends

it seems that the watchtower society was very ill prepared for the advent of the internet.

perhaps, some of the governing body thought the end would come before it became a big problem.

now it is a big problem and is only going to get worse.

10p

Every single JW I ever knew is on Facebook(all those under 35, the representation falls off sharply after that). Those who are still in, and those who are out. So I think its safe to say, in western countries, JW's have taken no notice of anti-internet sentiments from the org. They resist typing "Jehovah's Witnesses" into Google, knowing what will result. But they are interconnected with more people than ever.

funny story actually ... One old friend who has just joined Facebook sent me a message to say he is pioneering next month, and his wife is pioneering this month. But in his friends list is another guy who we were both friends with in our youth - when we were all dubs - who is now DF'ed and living a homosexual lifestyle. So thru Facebook, dubs are being reunited with their DF'ed mates and they can keep in contact with them secretly, because no one really has to know. Now if an elder caught you having lunch with your old DF'ed mate - you'd be in serious krap. But email him, and no one is the wiser. And Facebook is neutral enough that if an elder notices you have a DF'ed person in your friends list, you can say "well, he is still my brother, but I don't talk to him. So I can still call him a friend, as long as I don't talk to him. Maybe just knowing he still has friends in the org will encourage him to come back."

Either way, the dubs are doing what they have always done - try their darndest to do what makes sense, feels right and human, while still trying to please the unpleasable society. The average dub is a good person.

22

March BOE Financial Letter?

by yknot in

i received an email from a sister-undercover -apostate saying someone had posted on her anti-jw group that there was a boe dated march 1, 2008 about local kh financial accounts and the wts.. my fading doesn't always let me log-on much and i couldn't find anything under "boe letter" with last month search tool.

has this been discussed?

i stopped by the kh today and checked the board and we had nothing posted (not really expecting to see it posted either).. here is the cut/paste of her email to me:.

10p

I wouldn't be surprised, or offended. Its actually quite a good idea. When I was an accounts servant, I suffered from that 'hey, thats OUR money' syndrome (ie, local funds). But at the end of the day, the pubs believe in a united organisation, and donate their money towards that. In fact, most in my old cong found it a pain to split up their donations - no one knew how much to donate to what. I thought it would have been even better if all donations went to the society, as well as all bills. But then they would have to keep heaps of accountants employed at the branches instead of getting the most intelligent brother in each cong to play bookeeper for free :) But I don't think it counts as a scandal! Although I do think it is another piece of evidence that the org is struggling financially. My wife brought home a new song book the other day - and its paperbacked and got black lettering instead of gold on the cover! "Money's too tight to mention"