Posts by 10p

94

Where do atheists' morals come from?

by dorayakii in

many theists believe that atheists have no morality at all.

they argue that because atheists dont believe in the laws, limitations and boundaries that god has set up for us, there's nothing stopping them from becoming violent, lying thieving sociopaths.

there have been many stories of people who have "found god" and changed their life, giving up drugs, repenting for past crimes.

10p

for the lazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwz6B8BFkb4

94

Where do atheists' morals come from?

by dorayakii in

many theists believe that atheists have no morality at all.

they argue that because atheists dont believe in the laws, limitations and boundaries that god has set up for us, there's nothing stopping them from becoming violent, lying thieving sociopaths.

there have been many stories of people who have "found god" and changed their life, giving up drugs, repenting for past crimes.

10p

Where do theists morals come from?

Define 'morals'.

Have morals changed over time?

If morals have changed, how did they change?

the answer is in the questions. I could rabbit on with examples, but you'd be better off googling "the shifting moral zeitgeist"

13

Does anyone have parents who have left the BORG after you did?

by Alexia in

im thinking about my mother today.

shes been in the truth for over 30 years now baptized in her mid 20s.

she had been faithful the whole time despite being married to a severe alcoholic (my father only studied) for 27 years.

My father had been DFed when he left my mother and married another (wordly) woman. She studied and joined the religion, and my father got reinstated. Years passed, and they had 'grown cold', but still believed it was the truth etc. Then my sister became apostate, then me. I told my sister to get Crisis of Conscience, which she did. She then passed it onto my father who read it, and is now totally out.

On the other hand, though, my mother is still in, and probably will never leave. I think for women, the religion can actually be a decent life, especially if it suits their personality (conservative). She doesn't shun her children though.(well, its only my sister who is actually DF'ed. My brother never got baptised, and I'm still under the radar, at this stage) She also knows her children are all pretty smart, so I think she has her doubts ... who knows, maybe she will 'see the light.' I can't see how it would benefit her life though, as currently the religion isn't having any negetive consequences for her - it gives her a social network and 'rewarding' activities (ok, we know they're not rewarding, but they think they are, and so therefore they are - to them).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy having a free mind, but honestly, on philosophical reflection, I don't see the point in wanting people to leave their religions - I think most people couldn't cope. And if you just want them to leave one religion and join another ... then you really have to look at yourself and ask if you've actually changed since being a JW.

39

Text Message I Just Received From An Old Witness Friend

by str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up in

this is a text message i just received from a guy who was in my old congregation.

(ps, no there was no shenanigans going on there, i wasn't interested in this guy in that way...even though he was possibly the best friend i had ever had within jws).. "hi rob.

please come back to the truth.

10p

I've been in that guys shoes.

I remember telling my friend who left the org and 'came out' that he just had to endure to the end of this system, and Jehovah would make him str8 in the new order.

I really wish he had told me it wasn't the truth. Although, to be honest, I don't think he believed that at the time either - He just couldn't be bothered with it all, and didn't mind dying at Armageddon.

So TELL him its not the truth, and the gay thing is not why you left - you left because its NOT the truth, and now you're free to be who you are!

119

What Its Like To Be A Gay Ex JW....

by str8?so is spaghetti..until you heat it up in

i guess its time to throw my little story out there.

i keep reading everyones stories and thinking how brave you have all been, coming out of the organisation and facing all the repercussions of doing so.. .

i only last august disassociated myself.

10p

I very rarely comment on the board these days, I became somewhat disillusioned with the attitude of some of the people here.

And so by the laws of mathematics, you make the bad ones more abundant (as a ratio).
Please - to all nice people - DONT be put off by the nasties. Imagine if we all did that (and I'm including myself in the nice people, hopefully you all see me that way) - there'd only be nasty people left.
(and to repeat the old bulletin board customs from times past - "Dont feed the trolls")

56

What's the BEST thing about being "out" of the "truth"?

by B_Deserter in

for me, it's having friends that i don't have to hide my lack of meeting attendance/service from.

it's amazing how they teach you that only jws can be your real friends, but in reality, it's all contingent upon your religious "performance.

" sure, if you're not going to meetings, they'll try to be "friends," by encouraging you to go back.

10p

what they said, but second best is: Tertiary education

(sux to have to do it part time correspondance, but at I've a bit of extra time for it now, with not witnessing, preparing for or going to meetings, personal study, family study, mowing the KH lawns, cleaning the KH, building new KH's, preparing/giving public talks, TMS talks, Service meeting talks, congregation accounts, DBR, days text, praying)

short conversation between two old friends

by 10p in

one of whom is an ex-elder and ex-witness, the other still an elder: .

"could you defend your faith in a room full of popes?

"absolutely.

10p

one of whom is an ex-elder and ex-witness, the other still an elder:

"could you defend your faith in a room full of popes?"

"absolutely."

"then why is it you crumble before one apostate?"

true story, but I heard it second hand.

7

New Scientist - "Blood doesn't always save lives"

by Zico in

i got sent a .pdf copy via e-mail today about blood transfusions that's causing a lot of excitement among local jws.

it was one of those 'look, scientists say we're right' e-mails.

it was in the april 2008 issue of new scientist magazine.

10p

I have read enough conflicting opinion among medical "experts" to make me want to decline blood treatment in all but an imminantly life threatening situation

Amen.

15

Dublin, Ireland Hospital Faces 1m Bill Over Transfusion Case

by AndersonsInfo in

ireland .

coombe faces 1m bill over transfusion case.

thursday, 8 may 2008 17:29. the coombe women's hospital is facing a bill of over 1m for costs over its successful high court action in a recent blood transfusion case.. the case centred on whether the hospital was entitled to administer a necessary blood transfusion to a female member of the jehovah's witnesses faith, against her wishes.. in a landmark ruling last month, ms justice mary laffoy ruled the hospital had acted lawfully in getting a court order allowing it give the transfusion to the 24-year-old woman, who may be identified only as ms k.. the court also set out guidelines as to how hospitals, the courts and the state might address similar situations in the future.. the case was before the judge again yesterday to decide issues of the multi-million euro costs of the 37-day hearing.. the judge rejected applications by both the hospital and ms k to have their costs paid by the state.

10p

Can someone explain to me how the Society gets involved in these cases?

I don't understand amicus curiae etc.

What I don't understand is who iniates these legal proceedings anyway. Would this sister, an illegal immigrant, normally bring more attention to herself, after having the 'out' of being forced a transfusion (so she doesn't get DA'd), by sueing the hospital? Wouldn't you be thankful just to be alive, and let the matter drop?

How does the society's involvement work? Do they have attorneys who, in effect, defend the sister?

Would the society voluntarily defend a witness who was being sued for a business deal that went bad?

And where do all these huge costs come from? And was this sister gonna donate the money to the society if she won?

I read these posts about court cases about blood, and I can never figure out how the society is actually involved, because how can the society sue a hospital if it forces a transfusion on someone - only the person can sue - or am i wrong?

17

An interesting discussion with my wife

by 10p in

last night i had an interesting talk with my wife in bed.. oprah had a show on recently about gays.

now i don't normally watch oprah, but she was watching a taped one in the evening, so i was just overhearing stuff.

anyway, i think my wife puts more faith in oprah than in the gb :).

10p

OTWO: no, I read a lot of your posts. but sometimes I *do* skip posts when the ranting is irrational and one-sided.

Open Mind: nearly tore our marriage apart. THere were not really any arguments about doctrines, beliefs etc - she just felt she didn't know me anymore and that we were on different paths - that I might as well have come out and told her I am gay. So we are a long way from there, thankfully!

Alexia: Yeah, I dont have any friends that I can hang out with at the moment, but its partially my fault anyway - there are plenty of nice people at work, but I'm just not a social person really. I've always been a person to have one or two really good friends, and thats it. My best friend unfortunately lives overseas, but we keep in close contact thanks to Windows Live Messenger, and he flies over every few years. Between him and my wife, I have all the friends I need.

passive: I must admit, I made my statement based on an non-random, small sample - 100% of the 10 or so witnesses I have heard from about it have been positive. Oprah IS an idiot. My wife, though, is of the sort to be told what to think. I think she actually prefers it that way. what can you do? anyway, at least Oprah presents a lot of information that people can then think about themselves. I know she really plugs 'the secret' which I find to be the biggest scam out - but no one is gonna disfellowship me from the cult of OPrah because I don't believe in 'the secret'. She presents information, with bias, that a person can take and do what they want with. Unlike info from the watchtower, which pubs HAVE to believe in.