Posts by DNCall

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

We live in a 24/7 news world where so much of the time is filled with speculation. I can't pretend to be unaffected, so here is my speculation:

Should the WTS open the door, just a crack, for the uniquiness of their activities to be brought into play, the argument that they cannot be held liable for the actions of one member toward the other might not stand. The amount of time that adult members and child members spend with each other each week, week in and week out, is somewhat unique. Not all that time can be supervised, but there are policies in place to assume supervisorial responsibility (i.e., the elders will "keep an eye" on a known child abuser). The public ministry is less supervised, where you have a known pedophile interacting with households that include children. This narrows the field of liability considerably as respects the WTS.

I'm not sure the WTS wants to open that door.

25

Appealing a disfellowshipping - any experience

by dozy in

jw
friends

anyone had any experience of a successful appeal against a disfellowship?

a friend of mine feels he has been dfd unjustifiably & is considering an appeal.

he probably has something of a case - the jc was a total shambles - but i'm very dubious that he has any likelihood of success.. my only experience of a successful appeal is when elders in a neighbouring congregation were appointed by the co & overturned a df in our congregation a few years ago.

DNCall

Things might have changed since I used to sit on appeal committees, but at that time the standard was repentance or lack thereof. In the majority of cases I was involved in, we overturned the decision of the original committee and the original committee accepted our decision. We could see repentance, whereas they didn't.

I realize this goes contrary to mamochan13's unfortunate experience, but if his/her appeal committee's report had included, "The appeal committee . . . believed I was repentant, but that since the elders had followed the correct process, my dfing would be upheld," I believe the Service Department would have intervened. They do intervene and make the final decision if the appeal committee and the original committe cannot agree on a decision, or they see some other flaw in the process.

13

Identity Crisis: Who Am I?

by Emery in

jw
friends

after learning ttatt, i have completely abandoned christian fundamentalism.

thus, dropping many superstitions, prejudices, and biases associated with legalistic interpretations of the bible.

although i am agnostic, i still adhere to many christian principles, not because i think they are divine truths, but because i've benefited from the wisdom.. since i no longer believe in the inspiration of the bible, i repeatedly find myself falling into questions of conscience, ones which i've never faced before... .

DNCall

I think you touched on the heart of the matter in your post. Fear, the Bible, or some higher authority, can induce you to be moral, sensible, honest, health-conscious, etc. Or--and this is whether you believe in God or not--you can manifest these qualities because you appreciate their intrinsic value. In such a case you identify yourself as one who wants to improve himself/herself and be of greater value to others. It's not a bad way to live either.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

I can only comment on California, but appellate courts do hear oral argument. Each side presents its argument and the panel of three judges can ask questions of the lawyers who present the arguments. Usually these hearings do not last too long. Often they are less than 30 minutes in length.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

Gingerbread: In addition to Mr. Schnack who represented them in the original action, the WTS hired Boudreau and Williams (www.bwlawllp.com). Jon Williams specializes in appellate work. My guess is that he is doing the heavy lifting in the appeal.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

MB: The WTS hired a firm that specializes in appellate work, so this isn't their first rodeo. I am surprised that they exceeded the allowable word count. I wouldn't conclude that they are taking advantage billing-wise. Appeals are expensive because they involve a lot of research, paperwork and expertise. Oftentimes deadlines are continued simply due to the attorney's case load.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

That's about right Hillary. Whereas the CA Supreme Court would likely review the case, it's less likely that the U.S. Supreme Court would review this particular case. This is because it may not find a constitutional issue within the case. This is a much different kind of case than those involving constitutional rights of free speech and freedom of religion that were at issue in the WTS cases back in the 30s and 40s.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

TOH: Candace now has 30 days to file her respondent's brief. Then WTS has 20 days to file its reply to Candace's response. Both of those deadlines can be extended if both sides agree to the extensions. Once the briefing is complete, the court will set a date for oral argument. The court then deliberates and renders its judgment some weeks, at times months, later. Either party can petition the California Supreme Court to review the appeallate court's decision if they so desire.

85

WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown in

as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

DNCall

Gayle,

The volumes consist of documents from the trial that support the brief. Those are usually submitted, if not always submitted. The brief itself contained more words than allowed by the court rules, hence being designated "oversized." The scheduled actions for April 2 are reminders to follow up on whatever the court ordered the WTS regarding their oversized brief and to follow up on the pro hac vice request to allow representation by one of the WTS' New York lawyers.

9

Memorial Flyer Acknowledges Public Disdain for JWs - Implicitly

by 144001 in

yesterday, i had the opportunity to review the official jw invitation to their "memorial" event.

the front of the flyer has a well-groomed, caucasian jesus, leading all the minority people somewhere .

most likely to a factory in brooklyn to serve as slaves for a publishing company.. curiously, there is no mention of jehovah's witnesses anywhere on the face of that flyer.

DNCall

. . . not to mention that for decades the immediate idenfication of yourself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses when engaged in the door-to-door ministry was strongly discouraged. The countless suggested presentations never included identifying who we were. In putting myself in the place of the householder, I would want to know immediately who this stranger at my door was. Almost without exception, I identified myself as a JW right off the bat. Saved a lot of time.