Hi Bangalore,
Nice to see you here!
Jan Kosonen,
Kosonen
JoinedPosts by Kosonen
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18
argument against the faithfull and discreet slave class ?
by KAYTEE inas an ex jw, i found that the faithful and discreet slave class (fdsc) was paramount in the make up of that religion.. prior to disfellowshiping anyone, the elders would question your loyalty to the (fdsc), disprove the existence of this class and the whole credibility of that religion collapses, remember this hinges on just three verses in math.24 v45-48.
imagine a scenario; the elders are confronting you with this dilemma, what would your argument be, against the authenticity of this class.. i know there are many on this site that could answer this very well, i know of two ladies who could put a convincing answer.. to hear your comments could greatly help many who frequent this site, that find themselves on the fringes of that religion.. kt.
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Kosonen
Hi passwordprotected,
I really liked your comment!
Kosonen,
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18
argument against the faithfull and discreet slave class ?
by KAYTEE inas an ex jw, i found that the faithful and discreet slave class (fdsc) was paramount in the make up of that religion.. prior to disfellowshiping anyone, the elders would question your loyalty to the (fdsc), disprove the existence of this class and the whole credibility of that religion collapses, remember this hinges on just three verses in math.24 v45-48.
imagine a scenario; the elders are confronting you with this dilemma, what would your argument be, against the authenticity of this class.. i know there are many on this site that could answer this very well, i know of two ladies who could put a convincing answer.. to hear your comments could greatly help many who frequent this site, that find themselves on the fringes of that religion.. kt.
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Kosonen
At my judicial commitee, I had to explain my point of view to Matthew 24:45.
I just said them, you know in Matthew 24:45 you have the question Who really is the faithful and discreet slave? It is not a statment that the leaders of the Watchtower-society is a faithful and discreet slave. It is just a question. Then the context, the verse prior says that you would not know when the Son of man arrives, so why do the leaders of the Watchtower claim that he arrived in 1918?
Also the verse 47 says when the Son of man arrives, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Does this not happen when Jesus' slaves get the Heavenly Kingdom? But the Watchtower claims that this has already happend, and that this does not refer to the Heavenly Kingdom. But that can't be the true.
The elders had nothing to say. So I asked them, please, let's write together a letter to GB and tell them the right understanding. But they refused. I asked why? One of them said: We do not want the truth to come through you to all Jehovah's witnesses. An other said the truth is not so important, it can wait, till Jehovah gives it through the Watchtower-pages.
But you can use some more arguments if they will listen, for example:
(All the quotes from the New World Translation)
Isaiah 5:21 says:
21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes and discreet even in front of their own faces!
You see, the leaders of the Watchtower make a big misstake boasting and claiming to be faithful and discreet. Their approving themselves has no value. They should wait when the Son of man comes and see who will be approved as faithful and discreet. It is an individual question.
Also Jesus told how his disciples should regard themselves. Luke 17:10: So YOU , also, when YOU have done all the things assigned to YOU , say, ‘We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.’”
You see how they have tried to missinterprete the Scriptures in their behalf!
Here is Matthew 24:45 with its context:
43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming. 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU , He will appoint him over all his belongings. 48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.
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Would American Witnesses Really Die For Their Beliefs?
by Dune inback in march 2002, right after 9/11, a few elders took me and some other congregation youth to a march madness game.
as with any american sport, the national anthem is played before the game starts.
growing up, i've been to school pep rallies, assemblies, games and i never stood up for any of the anthems/pledges (nothing ever happened, my friends just called me a 'commie'), so i was suprised when the elder gets up, leans over and says that i should probably stand up, which i did.
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Kosonen
Who of Jehovah's witnesses dare to question 1914 as the year of God's kingdoms establishement?
Who dares to show their elders Acts 1:6,7:
When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction;
Who of JW:s dares to claim that people should not try to calculate times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction, for example the establishement of the Kingdom, according to Jesus' words above.
Then who of the Jehovah's witnesses dares to point to the fact before the elders that according to Revelation and also paradoxially according to the book Revelation- Its Grand Climax at Hand that the birth of the Kingdom is connected to the 3:rd woe, but that it also says that we live now and fullfill only the 2:ond woe. That this means that we have not yet come to the 3:rd woe, to the birth of God's Kingdom.
Quote from Revelation climax-book page 220, § 22:
The final three trumpet blasts were different, for they were called woes. (Revelation 8:13; 9:12) The first two of these consisted particularly of the locusts and the armies of cavalry, while the third introduced the birth of Jehovah’s Kingdom. (Revelation 9:1-21; 11:15-19)
The book explains that the locust ( first woe) symbolized anointed christians in the preaching work from 1914 forward until "the other sheep appared". And the armies of cavalry symbolizes today's preaching activity of JW:s, the second woe. So, the third woe introduced by the birth of God's Kingdom should not yet have happened! That clearly shows: No God's Kingdom in 1914.
I've shown this to many Jehovah's witnesses, and they admit, that this seems to be true. But no one dares to push the matter futher. They do not want to get problems.
They say they have the truth, but they still prefer many lies. Many of them might be ready to die for some matters of faith but in other matters of faith they do not sacrifice themselves.
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Would American Witnesses Really Die For Their Beliefs?
by Dune inback in march 2002, right after 9/11, a few elders took me and some other congregation youth to a march madness game.
as with any american sport, the national anthem is played before the game starts.
growing up, i've been to school pep rallies, assemblies, games and i never stood up for any of the anthems/pledges (nothing ever happened, my friends just called me a 'commie'), so i was suprised when the elder gets up, leans over and says that i should probably stand up, which i did.
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Kosonen
Well, many witnesses do not want to be disfellowshiped. Even when they have seen in the Bible, that the Watchtower-society do not teach the truth in all matters. They rather stay in the lie, than expose it and to avoid facing persecution from the congregation (get disfellowshiped). I think every witness has found something that is wrong in the Watchtower-teaching, in direct opposition to what is written in the Bible. But mostly they just quietly sit and wait, without saying a thing for years. Is that not cowardice? I think the elders are best in this. They have the ampliest knowledge. But they do nothing to correct matters.
No wonder that today's elders fit to the picture about bad shepards that only think about themselves. And how to please the govering body. No wonder that Bethel more often has a bad connotation in the Bible.
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Highlights from Jeremiah 29
by Kosonen inwhen some israelites had been brought to babylone as captives, jeremiah had instructions to them from jehovah.. (all the quotes taken from the new world translation of the holy scriptures) .
jeremiah 29:4-7.
4 this is what jehovah of armies, the god of israel, has said to all the exiled people, whom i have caused to go into exile from jerusalem to babylon, 5 [b]build houses [/b]and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage.
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Kosonen
I'm sorry that the BOLD text did not work. But here is the same text as I wanted it to look like:
When some Israelites had been brought to Babylone as captives, Jeremiah had instructions to them from Jehovah.
Jeremiah 29:4-7
4 “This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said to all the exiled people, whom I have caused to go into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon, 5 ‘Build houses and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage. 6 Take wives and become father to sons and to daughters; and take wives for YOUR own sons and give YOUR own daughters to husbands, that they may give birth to sons and to daughters; and become many there, and do not become few. 7 Also, seek the peace of the city to which I have caused YOU to go into exile, and pray in its behalf to Jehovah, for in its peace there will prove to be peace for YOU yourselves.These instructions sound similar to what christians are told:
14 Therefore I desire the younger widows to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, to give no inducement to the opposer to revile. 1 Timothy 5:141 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. 1 Timothy 2:1,2
28 Peter started to say to him: “Look! We left all things and have been following you.” 29 Jesus said: “Truly I say to YOU men, No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news 30 who will not get a hundredfold now in this period of time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, with persecutions, and in the coming system of things everlasting life.
So here are a lot of similarities in the situation of new christians and the exile-jews in the days of Jeremiah.
But there was false prophet, who contradicted Jeremiah. He claimed that the exile-time will shortly end and therefore they should not settle down in Babylon, getting married, getting children, building houses, planting gardens.
Does not the situation ressemble something today? Who has always been predicting that the new world is very close? Who has been telling: Do not get married now, have not children in this world, do not build houses now and so on?
Are they not contradicting apostle Pauls inspired words. Do they not act like the false prophets who contradicted Jeremiah.
Here is the message from Jehovah God to the false prophets in Jeremiah 29:24-32:24 “And to She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am you will say, 25 ‘This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said: “For the reason that you yourself have sent in your name letters to all the people who are in Jerusalem, and to Zeph·a·ni´ah the son of Ma·a·sei´ah, the priest, and to all the priests, saying, 26 ‘Jehovah himself has made you priest instead of Je·hoi´a·da the priest, in order to become the grand overseer of the house of Jehovah toward any man maddened and behaving like a prophet, and you must put him into the stocks and into the pillory; 27 now, then, why have you not rebuked Jeremiah of An´a·thoth, who is behaving as a prophet to YOU people? 28 For that is why he has sent to us at Babylon, saying: “It is long drawn out! Build houses and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage,—”’”’”
29 And Zeph·a·ni´ah the priest proceeded to read this letter in the ears of Jeremiah the prophet.
30 Then the word of Jehovah occurred to Jeremiah, saying: 31 “Send to all the exiled people, saying, ‘This is what Jehovah has said concerning She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am: “For the reason that She·mai´ah has prophesied to YOU people, but I myself did not send him, and he tried to make YOU trust in falsehood, 32 therefore this is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am turning my attention upon She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am and upon his offspring.’
“‘“‘He will not come to have a man dwelling in the midst of this people; and he will not look upon the good that I am doing for my people,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘for he has spoken outright revolt against Jehovah.’”’”
So, therefore I would like to encourage everyone who wants to get married, have children, build a house, plant a garden, to do that and not to wait untill the "new world". And also not to forget to pray inbehalf of the superior authorities, who are God's ministers.
Best Regards
Kosonen
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Highlights from Jeremiah 29
by Kosonen inwhen some israelites had been brought to babylone as captives, jeremiah had instructions to them from jehovah.. (all the quotes taken from the new world translation of the holy scriptures) .
jeremiah 29:4-7.
4 this is what jehovah of armies, the god of israel, has said to all the exiled people, whom i have caused to go into exile from jerusalem to babylon, 5 [b]build houses [/b]and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage.
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Kosonen
When some Israelites had been brought to Babylone as captives, Jeremiah had instructions to them from Jehovah.
(All the quotes taken from The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)Jeremiah 29:4-7
4 “This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said to all the exiled people, whom I have caused to go into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon, 5 [b]‘Build houses [/b]and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage. 6 [b]Take wives [/b]and become father to sons and to daughters; and take wives for YOUR own sons and give YOUR own daughters to husbands, that they may [b]give birth to sons and to daughters[/b]; and become many there, and do not become few. 7 Also, [b]seek the peace of the city [/b]to which I have caused YOU to go into exile, and [b]pray in its behalf [/b]to Jehovah, for in its peace there will prove to be peace for YOU yourselves.These instructions sound similar to what christians are told:
14 Therefore I desire the younger widows [b]to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, [/b]to give no inducement to the opposer to revile. 1 Timothy 5:141 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, [b]prayers[/b], intercessions, offerings of thanks, [b]be made concerning [/b]all sorts of men, 2 concerning [b]kings[/b] and all those who are in high station; [b]in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life [/b]with full godly devotion and seriousness. 1 Timothy 2:1,2
28 Peter started to say to him: “Look! [b]We left all things [/b]and have been following you.” 29 Jesus said: “Truly I say to YOU men, No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news 30 who will not [b]get [/b]a hundredfold now in this period of time, [b]houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields[/b], with persecutions, and in the coming system of things everlasting life.
So here are a lot of similarities in the situation of new christians and the exile-jews in the days of Jeremiah.
But there was false prophet, who contradicted Jeremiah. He claimed that the exile-time will shortly end and therefore they should not settle down in Babylon, getting married, getting children, building houses, planting gardens.
Does not the situation ressemble something today? Who has always been predicting that the new world is very close? Who has been telling: Do not get married now, have not children in this world, do not build houses now and so on?
Are they not contradicting apostle Pauls inspired words. Do they not act like the false prophets who contradicted Jeremiah.
Here is the message from Jehovah God to the false prophets in Jeremiah 29:24-32:24 “And to She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am you will say, 25 ‘This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said: “For the reason that you yourself have sent in your name letters to all the people who are in Jerusalem, and to Zeph·a·ni´ah the son of Ma·a·sei´ah, the priest, and to all the priests, saying, 26 ‘Jehovah himself has made you priest instead of Je·hoi´a·da the priest, in order to become the grand overseer of the house of Jehovah toward any man maddened and behaving like a prophet, and you must put him into the stocks and into the pillory; 27 now, then, why have you not rebuked Jeremiah of An´a·thoth, who is behaving as a prophet to YOU people? 28 For that is why he has sent to us at Babylon, saying: “It is long drawn out! Build houses and inhabit [them], and plant gardens and eat their fruitage,—”’”’”
29 And Zeph·a·ni´ah the priest proceeded to read this letter in the ears of Jeremiah the prophet.
30 Then the word of Jehovah occurred to Jeremiah, saying: 31 “Send to all the exiled people, saying, ‘This is what Jehovah has said concerning She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am: “For the reason that She·mai´ah has prophesied to YOU people, [b]but I myself did not send him, and he tried to make YOU trust in falsehood,[/b] 32 therefore this is what Jehovah has said, ‘[b]Here I am turning my attention upon She·mai´ah of Ne·hel´am and upon his offspring.’[/b]
“‘“‘He will not come to have a man dwelling in the midst of this people; [b]and he will not look upon the good that I am doing for my people,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘for he has spoken outright revolt against Jehovah.’”’” [/b]
So, therefore I would like to encourage everyone who wants to get married, have children, build a house, plant a garden, to do that and not to wait untill the "new world". And also, not to forget to pray inbehalf of the superior authorities, who are God's ministers.
Best Regards
Kosonen
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Best forum for spirituality
by Kosonen inas i have heard, this forum is closing, but i've found recently a very nice forum for faith, spirituality, confort.
it is www.paradisecafediscussions.net .
best regards jan kosonen.
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Kosonen
As I have heard, this forum is closing, but I've found recently a very nice forum for faith, spirituality, confort. It is www.paradisecafediscussions.net
Best regards Jan Kosonen
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Anointed friends in heaven
by Newborn inwhen i was a teenager a sister who claimed to be one of the anointed, studied with me.
that was considered an enourmeous privilege of course.
after she passed away 14yrs ago, i always had even more bad concsience coz i knew she was watching me doing "wrong, insignificant " things.
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Kosonen
Hello sister,
What a priviledge you had, to study with an anointed!
But do not worry about that she would watch you. Jesus came to save not the righteous, but sinners.
And about the anointed in heaven. There is no evidence that the first ressurection has begun. You know, when Jesus was resurrected, there was plenty of eye-witnesses. But nobody has yet witnessed, that the anointed really have been resurrected. The bible tells in Revelation, that the first resurrection will be seen, even by the enemies. Look what's written about this in Revelation 11: 11 , 12: And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. 12 And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: “Come on up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them.
This is said to occure in the city where their Lord was killed. Wich city is this? Jerusalem of course.
Have anybody seen this happen yet? Of course not. So, no anointed exept Jesus Christ resurrected to heaven yet!
Your brother Kosonen
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No More Publisher Numbers
by GermanXJW inaccording to a report on the german xjw-board: http://forum.sektenausstieg.net/index.php?topic=13367.msg391400#msg391400 the german kingdom ministry for february 09 does not contain a supplement with the publisher figures.
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furthermore, it does not contain the monthly report for the first month of the service year 2009 (sep 08) as it used to in the past.sixty years.. this may indicate that the wts is not that transparent with their publishers numbers any more if they are not even doing away with it.. can anyone confirm from other countries?.
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Kosonen
That would be sad. I want to se how much the memorial partakernumber has increased!!!