Posts by Kosonen

46

new thinking after reading Collosians

by Honeybucket in

i read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.

maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.

even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.

Kosonen

Pterist,

Now colosians 1:15 (American standard version) says about Jesus: who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

First of all image is not the original,

Second, Jesus was the firstborn of all creation. So he was created by his Father and this creation is also called birth here.

So here already you should see that the Father was before the Son. There is now reason to call some one son if he is not a son???

Third, The STUFF doesn't matter anything, just as we are from the dust it does not make us equal or eternal.

Forth, Jesus teaches us how to love above all (inclusively himself) Jehovah God, Jesus set the example for us how to have exclusive devotion for Jehovah. How to be submissive to Jehovah God. That's why we come to Jehovah God through Jesus. Jesus is the guide to the Father.

But you all trinitarians seem not to wish to come to the Father. You rather distort the understanding of Jesus, to have an excuse to not go futher to the Father.

Fifth, The concept withe temple does not prove Jesus to be superior the Father or equal, because all christians are called to be the temple of God where he dwells will His spirit.

Sixth, I don't think Jehovah likes to celebrate birthdays. Stupid celebration for pagans.

7

wear a cross for protection

by Honeybucket in

jw
friends

the holy cross will protect you from vampires and jehovahs witnesses.

Kosonen

There is no holy cross!

46

new thinking after reading Collosians

by Honeybucket in

i read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.

maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.

even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.

Kosonen

Black Sheep,

Don't you know better???

Don't you know Church history??

Have you never talked to a priest?

Have you never been preaching?

I went 3 weeks ago to a local Catholic church to see and hear how they preach. After the service I stayed to talk with a neigbour that was there and then I could talk with the priest also. So, I told him little about my history, and he at once asked if I believe in the trinity? I told that I believe in Jesus the son of God . He then wanted to know if I believed that Jesus is equal to God? I told him: No, is it a problem? He was polite and we continued our discussion on other matters.

I can tell you the very first thing a priest have to learn to believe in is the Athanasian Creed. And it is just this stupid garbage definition of the trinity they put down the throat the priest students. Google what is this Athanasian Creed containing the trinity if you are not convinced with the following quote frome Wikipedia:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

46

new thinking after reading Collosians

by Honeybucket in

i read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.

maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.

even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.

Kosonen

Hi Honeybucket and others,

Nice that you have begun to read the Bible, you will grow in knowledge if you continue. About your question about trinity. The trinity doctrine means that there is three persons in one God, and that they are completely equal in age, power, knowledge etc. (That's impossible and it contradicts many statements in the Bible and it contradicts logic. That's why christendom's priests do not get in to explain the contradictions. Instead they insist that you should believe it because it is a mystery that we can not understand.)

But the Father is allways older and wiser and more powerfull than the Son. Even though they are best friends. And where is the trinity's third person the Holy Spirit? In visions about God in the Bible you read about God the Father, and sometimes at His right hand is His son Jesus. But in these occasions you never read about a third person holy spirit standing there together with God and Jesus. Just continue to read the Bible and analize how God the Father Jehovah and the son of God Jesus Christ our lord and holy spirit are related, and you will come to a right conclusion.

I have long time wondered how is it so hard for the almost the entire Christendom to get to the truth about who is God? They know Jesus, but they don't know the Father, and that's why they mess Jesus and God the Father into one person. But was that not the same reason that the jews rejected Jesus, because they knew him, but they did not know the Father? That's why Jesus said that they did not have love for God.

So, begin with the first and most important commandment, then you can build you faith further.

16

DO THE Governing Body fit the criteria for FDS ?

by Phizzy in

from jw.org report of 2012 a.g.m :.

"the evidence points to the following conclusion: "the faithful and discreet slave" was appointed over jesus' domestics in 1919. that slave is the small, composite group of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during christ's presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food.

when this group work together as the governing body, they act as "the faithful and discreet slave."".

Kosonen

I would say, self proclaimed faithfullness and discreeteness is does not prove anything. Jesus even supposed that a faithful slave could turn evil:

“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I think that every leader of any "christian" hierarchy regards himself to be the "faithful slave".

No wonder that the leaders of the Watchtower society do the same.

Just ask any "christian" denomination, and their leaders will explain that only they are the "faithful slave".

Better you study the Bible your self instead of following men.

Let the promised by Jesus holy spirit, the helper lead you to all the truth.

229

Should We Worship Jesus?

by Perry in

there is one lord, one faith, one baptism.. jehovah and jesus are also both spoken of as savior.

this is true because even though there are two personalities, and jesus also possesses a human body, they both also share the same substance or essence of god.

this is similar to my son who shares 50% of my essence in dna.

Kosonen

Perry, you quote a lot of scriptures. It does not seem that you get to the point anyway. Why to put so much effort to convince your self that Jesus is equal to Jehovah? Stupid!!! Read at least a gospel without predetermined oppinion, and you will in most cases find support for that the son of God is not equal to God.

Jesus was humble, and allways directed people to love above all his Father, to pray to the Father, to do the will of the Father, to glorify the Father, to obey the Father. Don't you think his Father was proud of him?

So, that's way I love Jesus. He set the perfect example to be a brother in faith, and how to be a son to God. There is no need to distort the nature of Jesus.

Romans 3:4: let God be found true, but every man a liar;

20

By what name should Christ's followers be known?

by The Searcher in

at isaiah 43:12, jehovah said to his fleshly nation of israel, "you are my witnesses.

" after christ's death, the literal jewish nation was cast off as god's chosen people, (matt.

21:43) and jehovah now allowed gentiles to join those jews who accepted christ as the messiah, to become part of the 'israel of god'.

Kosonen

I think all christians who add something to it are misstaking in a similar way as the Corinthians where some said they belonged to Paul and others to Apollos.

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.

3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?

4 For when one saith, I am of Paul (catholic); and another, I am of Apollos(Lutheran or what ever or I belong to the organization); are ye not men?

7 So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

20

By what name should Christ's followers be known?

by The Searcher in

at isaiah 43:12, jehovah said to his fleshly nation of israel, "you are my witnesses.

" after christ's death, the literal jewish nation was cast off as god's chosen people, (matt.

21:43) and jehovah now allowed gentiles to join those jews who accepted christ as the messiah, to become part of the 'israel of god'.

Kosonen

Christian is a good name, the

From /www.biblegateway.com:

Acts 11:26
and when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that even for a whole year they were gathered together with the church, and taught much people, and that the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts 11:25-27 (in Context) Acts 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Acts 26:28
And Agrippa said unto Paul, With but little persuasion thou wouldest fain make me a Christian.
Acts 26:27-29 (in Context) Acts 26 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
1 Peter 4:16
but if a man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God in this name.
1 Peter 4:15-17 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

I don't think it was non christans who labeled Jesus' disciples as christians. It seems to me unlikely.

19

Help add to the list of things that convinced you Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are flawed, that Governing Body are hypercritical, and deceiving >>>

by Butterflyleia85 in

sources to your claim will help with proof.... thanks.

these are a few i looked up and is just a rough note taking list so i didn't edit it and it's just done by basic looking through alot of articles and posts i've see:.

malawi-mexico contradiction... when a lot of the jehovah's witnesses were tortured and killed because the governing body forbade them to buy a card whereas the mexicans were allowed too.the real reason for the "donation arrangement"... property the wts owns in brooklyn heights alone would generate almost $10,000,000 (yes, ten million) in tax money each year for the city of new york-- that is if they had to pay taxes on it.

Kosonen

Abstain from blood, if you want to obey God's command to abstain from blood. Otherwise you can even drink blood as much you want, until you will womit from it. I don't understand why many here are so eager to get blood transfusions? Jesus said what gain is it for a man to conquer the wold but loose his soul?

19

Help add to the list of things that convinced you Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are flawed, that Governing Body are hypercritical, and deceiving >>>

by Butterflyleia85 in

sources to your claim will help with proof.... thanks.

these are a few i looked up and is just a rough note taking list so i didn't edit it and it's just done by basic looking through alot of articles and posts i've see:.

malawi-mexico contradiction... when a lot of the jehovah's witnesses were tortured and killed because the governing body forbade them to buy a card whereas the mexicans were allowed too.the real reason for the "donation arrangement"... property the wts owns in brooklyn heights alone would generate almost $10,000,000 (yes, ten million) in tax money each year for the city of new york-- that is if they had to pay taxes on it.

Kosonen

I don't discard all their teachings, but sadly they have stagnated in their increasing knowledge of the truth. And that's not strange either, because the wt-organization expells everyone who does his own personal bible study if he finds that a wt- teaching is wrong and tells about it in the congregation. Elders do even not defend their beliefs if you can show them from the bible that they are wrong. They just order you not to talk about it or disfellowship you.

So how they treat sincere brothers and sisters who have bible based different understanding of the sciptures is totally wrong and very similar to other religions and to the pharisees and scribes in the days of Jesus.

I grow up in a jw family and was baptized, and because of being injustly treated for about 20 years in different occasions, I started to realize more and more that not every thing is ok. Gradually I experienced that ministerial servants, then elders, then CO, and then finally the governing body are not that good as they pretend to be.

The first teaching that I doubted about was when the anointed would be ressurected to heaven. They teach that it happened in about year 1918. But according to the Bible the anointed will be ressurected and there after the remaining anointed will be changed from being humans to become spirit creatures. That is very clearly stated in the Bible. So if the dead anointed would have ressurected in 1918, then the living anointed should have been cought to heaven. But that has not happen until now. In addition wt does not either believe until now that the last anointed will be changed from human body to spirit body.

So, that made me think. If wt-org is so blind to such clear bible verses, then how is it with the rest of their knowledge? Even the name Jehovah's wittnesses is not the most appropriate for Jesus' dicsiples. The first christians did not call themselves Jehovah's witnesses. Instead Jesus wanted his disciples to be his witnesses. So, it would been better to be called Jesus' witnesses. But that is not either necessary. It is enough to be called christian and belonging to the Way, as did the first centry disciples of Jesus.

I counted that about 30-40 teachings and practices of the jw-org are not right, according to my personal bible research. But sadly all other churches are the same or worse.

So, if you want to know the truth, study the bible yourself, with the guidance of the holy spirit and you will be lead into all the truth. And even more important is that you live according to God's commands.