Posts by Kosonen

6

Acts 15

by peacefulpete in

acts 15. the pericope has been long interpreted by the catholic church as a proof text for a central authority.

churches like the wt repeat this claim.

however, reading the text without this coloring reveals something very different.. the story starts with paul and barnabas going to the antioch church and there they encounter pharisee christians from jerusalem (15:24) contradicting the doctrine held by the antioch church.

Kosonen

I am happy to have the New Testament. How else could we know about the truth?

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

@Duran

I don't have full understanding about the exact time line after the 1260 days end. Daniel speaks about the 1290th and 1335th day but does not tell what exactly happen on those days. Daniel ch 12.

In addition Daniel 7:11 says the following: “I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. 12 But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season.

And the Bible tells about the attack of Gog from Magog in Ezekiel 38. And I can not pinpoint exactly when that will happen in relation to the other moments of destruction.

In addition the battle at Armageddon seems to point to this place literally which is situated in todays' Israel.

And Joel speaks about the Valley of Jehoshaphat:

Joel 3:12 Let the nations be roused and come up to the Valley of Je·hoshʹa·phat; For there I will sit in order to judge all the surrounding nations. 13 Thrust in a sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come down and tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their badness is abundant. 14 Crowds, crowds are in the valley of the decision, For the day of Jehovah is near in the valley of the decision. 15 Sun and moon will become dark, And the stars will lose their brightness. 16 And Jehovah will roar out of Zion, Out of Jerusalem he will raise his voice. And heaven and earth will rock; But Jehovah will be a refuge for his people,

So how are all these and other prophecies about the end of this system of things happen seems too difficult to understand today.

But we can focus on the prophecies that are next in line to get their fulfillments.

6

Acts 15

by peacefulpete in

acts 15. the pericope has been long interpreted by the catholic church as a proof text for a central authority.

churches like the wt repeat this claim.

however, reading the text without this coloring reveals something very different.. the story starts with paul and barnabas going to the antioch church and there they encounter pharisee christians from jerusalem (15:24) contradicting the doctrine held by the antioch church.

Kosonen

Let's consider the way the New Testament was written. It was not by a central governing body. Instead it was by different apostles and disciples of Jesus indivudually from different locations.

They did not consult each other about what to write. That was unnecessary because they were in accord with Jesus' illustrations about Jesus' slaves and were led by Jesus their Lord and master and teacher.

But this did not prevent the apostles to councel each other or read each others letters. Apostle Peter mentioned apostle Paul's letters for example.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

@Duran

When and by what means do you say the wild beast and the false prophet get thrown into the fiery lake?

In Revelation 19 they gather to fight with Jesus. So he defeats them by swiftly destroying them.

Do you believe the UN is the beast in ch 13 who gets the said 42-month authority?

No I don't. The beast in ch 13 will have authority over a new financial system and will require that people worship its image.

_____________

Ch 17 - [And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.]
When and by what means do you say the wild beast/8th king goes off into destruction?

Chapter 17:14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”

Do you believe the UN is the 8th king?

Yes.

17:10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while.

Five kings were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece.

One is. It is the same as the fourth beast in Daniel 7. The Roman empire, it still exists in the sense of the fourth beast in Daniel 7 with its ten horns and a last eleventh that will appear. In fact the Roman empire was Italy, France, England and other European countries. It expanded when Europeans from these countries went to North America.

So the 6th king of the apostle John's time is still in power.

But the 7th king has not showed up yet, and as Revelation 17:10 says "he must remain a short while". Yes, here we have it, the 7th king is the seven headed beast in Revelation 13 who will rule a short while, 42 months.

Then even in a shorter time the 8th king, the UN will rule for one hour.

And the UN will not get the power from the Dragon. Instead it is as stated in verse 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

Kosonen

About the happy future

Micah 4:1 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it peoples will stream. 2 And many nations will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah And to the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 3 He will render judgment among many peoples And set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore. 4 They will sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, And no one will make them afraid, For the mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken.

Revelation 21:2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God…

Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

PetrW, I am glad that you take it seriously to examine and try to understand the prophecies in the Bible. Daniel 12:4 promises that the true knowledge will become abundant.

Daniel 12:4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”

The book of Daniel is helpful for understanding the 1260 days/42 months/3,5 years. Because in Daniel it is quite clear that it is only one such a period and not multiple in a row.

This knowledge helps to understand Revelation. Because there it talks about the same 3 and half year period. In Daniel we have also prophecies about the 1290th day and 1335th day counting from the same starting point as the period of 1260 days. All this starts from the placing of the disgusting thing in the "sanctuary" and the removal of the constant offering.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12 “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!

So, according to Revelation 13 a beast gets a sword stoke to one of its heads, and after that the dragon gives it great authority over all the earth for 42 months which is 3 and half years. At the same time the two prophets witness and at the end of this prriod are killed by the beast that comes out of the abyss. So this means that the beast of Revelation 13 is not the one to kill these two prophets/witnesses.

In Daniel 7 the fourth beast and its final eleventh horn which has a mouth and eyes will act 3 and half years. I think this is the same beast as the one in Revelation 13 who has two horns of a lamb but speaks like dragon and as it says in verse: 12 "It exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first wild beast, whose mortal wound was healed."

But this two horned beast, the USA, with its two parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, will come to an abrupt end if it is the same beast as the one in Daniel 7:11 "kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant words that the horn was speaking; I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. 12 But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season."

And this beast is also the king of the north and Daniel 11:44 tells how it will come to its end: "But reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. 45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him."

Evidently the king of the south will stay for a short time after the king of the north is destroyed.

Danniel 8 speaks also in an other vision about the end of this king/last eleventh horn, the final head of state of USA and its power.

Daniel 8:25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

He might be the man of lawlessness, because this horn, and the king of the north will elevate itself above all and boast, as will do the man of lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians 2.

33

Revelation stuff per request for PetrW

by EasyPrompt in

per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .

the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .

the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .

Kosonen

Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”

This verse seems to be the beginning of the "Woes".

The first woe should then be described in the next chapter. It is about a 5 month long period of locusts that torment people, but do not kill.

The second woe contains much more. It spans from Revelation 9:12 to Revelation 11:14. It looks like for me that the second woe could be the coming 42 months and 1260 days and time, times and half a time.

So this means that the things in Revelation 8 to 9:11 happen before the 42months/1260 days/3,5 years.

In fact I believe Revelation 8 to 9:11 has already happened since 2010.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

Duran, the difference is too big for them to be the same.

They differ in appearance and in their mission. Also the one from Revelation 13 gets struck in only one of its 7 heads, while the other in Revelation 17 goes down in abyss entirely.

The beast in Revelation 13 will set up a new financial system, that will require people to get it's mark or name or number to be able to buy or sell. And before that they will make an image of the beast that will both talk and get killed those who refuse to worship it.

While the beast in Revelation 17 will have only one mission, to destroy Babylon the Great.

But you are of course free to believe what you prefer.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

Hi PetrW, I have got an other understanding distinct from the WT organization. I see the 42 months to get its fulfillnent not 100+ years ago, but prior to the destruction of Babylon the Great. But the beast in Revelation 17 will get the power for one hour together with 10 kings.

So they can not be the same beast.

65

In Response to Anony Mous regarding the 144,000 and other questions...

by EasyPrompt in

still, you hold onto false teachings of the wtbts which are only there for the enrichment of its chiefs.. as pointed out, the rest of the book of revelation is figurative, yet you hold that the number 144,000 is literal.

the wtbts currently says that this number is limited to those running the wtbts and that anyone claiming to be part of it outside that self-selecting group could be mentally ill.. by what reasoning (not from wtbts origin) do you believe only 144,000 people will be ‘saved’, and how do you know who is part of this self-selected group, given virtually no other religious denomination does even remotely believe in the literalism of revelation.

do they have to be jws?

Kosonen

Is it not another the beast in Revelation 13, distinct from the one in Revelation 17?