If the Church called upon Both, Jesus and the Father, then surely it's ok to pray to both which is not a position JWs believe in. Sure, the Church called on Both but Acts 9:14 clearly shows the Church members called upon Jesus and suffered for His name sake.
JCISGOD98
JoinedPosts by JCISGOD98
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46
Who Did The Early Church Call Upon? Jesus or Jehovah?
by JCISGOD98 inwhose name was the early church calling upon?.
jesus or jehovah?.
acts 9:14 a verse jehovah's witnesses can't explain!.
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Who Did The Early Church Call Upon? Jesus or Jehovah?
by JCISGOD98 inwhose name was the early church calling upon?.
jesus or jehovah?.
acts 9:14 a verse jehovah's witnesses can't explain!.
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JCISGOD98
Whose Name Was The Early Church Calling Upon?
Jesus or Jehovah?
Acts 9:14 a verse Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Explain!Jehovah Witnesses claim they are the true historic church from the book of Acts when the church got started. If that is true, then Acts 9:14 should apply to them. Act 9:14 clearly show the early church was calling upon the name of Jesus. Church members got arrested and were persecuted for calling upon the name of Jesus.
Historically, the church was always persecuted for calling upon the name of Jesus and not Jehovah. If the early church was calling on the name Jehovah or Yahweh, Saul and the high priests would have no problem with the Christian church. Why persecute members of the church if the church was using the name of Jehovah, a name recognized by the high priest and Saul?
Let’s read Acts 9:5 though 17 as you will notice all content is about our Lord Jesus Christ. Let’s begin when Christ appeared to Saul who later became Saint Paul for Jesus Christ.
Acts 9:5-17 (KJV)
He (Saul) fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
There is no question that it is the Lord Jesus not Jehovah who is having a conversation with Saul. Even Jehovah’s Witnesses will admit to this.
10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!” “Yes, Lord,” he answered. 11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.” 13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that Ananias was speaking with Jehovah the Father in verses 10 through 16. The next verse reveals who Ananias was speaking with.
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Here are important points regarding verse 17:
- It was Jesus who sent Ananias to Saul
- It was Jesus who told Ananias to place his hands on Saul so Saul may see again
- This is clearly a prayer for Saul’s vision to be restored and Jehovah’s name was not used.
In conclusion, the early church was persecuted and suffered for calling upon the name of Jesus not Jehovah. The early church prayed in Jesus name not the name of Jehovah. The bottom line is, Jehovah Witnesses are not the true early church of Christendom of the book of Acts. They should throw away the book of Acts. It does not apply to them.
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Is Rev 5:11-14 Worship or Obeisance?
by JCISGOD98 ini asked a jw last week the following question, "is revelation 5:11-14 a worship act to the lamb or an act of obeisance?.
revelation 5:11-14 nwt states and i saw, and i heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: the lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.
because it's an act of worship and it is not allow in your kingdom hall.
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JCISGOD98
I normally stay away from Greek. I usually tell the JW, "well, I'm not a Greek scholar and I know you're not as well, so lets see which bible is correct. You're bible states Obeisance and I have 5 bible translations that all state "Worhsip", perhaps the 5 translation NIV, KJV, Standard, English and NKJV are all incorrect and your NWT is correct."
Then I tell them, "Explain Rev 5:11 - 14 in your NWT version? Is the whole world worshiping Christ or is that just an obeisance act?" Normally they will say Obeisance since it's in their bible. JWs will never admit that is a worhsip service to Christ in Rev 5:11. Then I follow up with "Why aren't you JWs doing it in your Kingdom Halls? Don't worry, you should not get in trouble if you give Glory and Praise Jesus like the world is doing in Rev 5:11. It's in your bible. You should do it. Just explain to your elders that is obesiance and not worship.
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Is Rev 5:11-14 Worship or Obeisance?
by JCISGOD98 ini asked a jw last week the following question, "is revelation 5:11-14 a worship act to the lamb or an act of obeisance?.
revelation 5:11-14 nwt states and i saw, and i heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: the lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.
because it's an act of worship and it is not allow in your kingdom hall.
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JCISGOD98
I asked a JW last week the following question, "Is Revelation 5:11-14 a worship act to the Lamb or an act of obeisance?
Revelation 5:11-14 NWT states “And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: ‘The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.’ And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: ‘To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever’ And the four living creatures went saying: ‘Amen!’ and the elders fell down and worshiped.”
He responded, "this is obeisance and not worshiping the Lamb." Then I responded, "if that is so, then why don't you Jehovah's Witnesses do this act of obeisance in your Kingdom Hall if the whole world in Rev 5:11-14 is doing it including creatures in heaven, earth, under earth and on the sea? Also, the four living creatures said AMEN! What is that all about? I thought AMEN is used at the end of a prayer or praise of glory. I know why you Jehovah's Witnesses don't do it? You want to know why you don't do it? Because it's an act of worship and it is not allow in your Kingdom Hall. I've been to your Kingdom Halls and you don't even do an act of obeisance to Jesus if this is in fact an act of obeisance."
It's been weeks that he said he was going to do research and would return.
Should I go to my local Kingdom Hall and scream out during their worship service and say "Yo Frank, what's up with Rev 5:11-14? You didn't get back to me man. That's not cool. You promised me we were going to finish our study on the Person of Jesus Christ. Where are your elders? I want to talk to them!" LOL!
You think that is over the top going to the Kingdom Hall putting him on the spot or should I just wait some more and he might show up at my house again?
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Salvation-The Watchtower's Way or the Bible's Way
by JCISGOD98 inmy bestfriend adonoyechod wrote an excellent message titled humor and sarcasm.
it is true, we must remember the purpose why we are on these message board.
it is not to just to win the argument but to win the lost for christ.
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JCISGOD98
Stichione writes:
Well written. I must admit it will be a challenge for me to deprogram myself from over 20 years of WTS brainwashing
to come to understand the simple Bible truths such as Works and Salvation as presented above. For such a long time
I felt as falling short of pleasing the Lord for not being able to deliver on what I was taught. Jesus' words are true when
he spoke to the Pharisees calling them hypocrites for putting heavy loads on people. These exact words are applicable
to the WTS today. I am glad though Jesus said "come to me for my load is light!"Thanks Stichione. Just remember to keep your eye and focus on Christ and He will do the deprogramming as He as done with many and myself.
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Old Light Vs New Light. The Light is not Bright
by RevJohn inold light vs. new light
the lighter is not bright .
the watchtower writes "if we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two years ago would be regarded as darkness now.
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JCISGOD98
Nice comparison chart. It kinda looks familar.
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Salvation-The Watchtower's Way or the Bible's Way
by JCISGOD98 inmy bestfriend adonoyechod wrote an excellent message titled humor and sarcasm.
it is true, we must remember the purpose why we are on these message board.
it is not to just to win the argument but to win the lost for christ.
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JCISGOD98
thanks buddy.
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Salvation-The Watchtower's Way or the Bible's Way
by JCISGOD98 inmy bestfriend adonoyechod wrote an excellent message titled humor and sarcasm.
it is true, we must remember the purpose why we are on these message board.
it is not to just to win the argument but to win the lost for christ.
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JCISGOD98
My bestfriend Adonoyechod wrote an excellent message titled humor and sarcasm. It is true, we must remember the purpose why we are on these message board. It is not to just to win the argument but to win the lost for Christ. Remember it all boils down to one word:
Salvation
According to the Watchtower Organization, Feb. 15, 1983, p. 12, there are four requirements for salvation as taught by the Watchtower magazine. Please check out the list.
- Jesus Christ identified a first requirement when he said in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their takingin knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ includes knowledge of Gods purposes regarding the earth and of Christs role as earths new King. Will you take in such knowledge by studying the Bible?
- Many have found the second requirement more difficult. It is to obey Gods laws, yes, to conform ones life to the moral requirements set out in the Bible. This includes refraining from a debauched, immoral way of life. 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; 1 Peter 4:3, 4.
- A third requirement is that we be associated with Gods channel, his organization. God has always used an organization. For example, only those in the ark in Noahs day survived the Flood, and only those associated with the Christian congregation in the first century had Gods favor. (Acts 4:12) Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.
- The fourth requirement is connected with loyalty . God requires that prospective subjects of his Kingdom support his government by loyally advocating his Kingdom rule to others. Jesus Christ explained: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth." (Matthew 24:14) Will you meet this requirement by telling others about Gods Kingdom?
According to the Bible, salvation is obtained by faith in Christ and what He did on the cross. That is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1). Justification is the legal declaration by God where He declares the sinner righteous. This is based on the substitutionary atonement of Jesus, on the cross, in our place.
- 2 Cor. 5:21 , "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
- 1 Pet. 2:24 , "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."
Because Jesus took our place and satisfied all the law, we are not obligated to keep the law in any way in order to be justified/saved. His righteousness, His fulfilling of the law is reckoned to us, is given to us by faith. That is why Jesus says He gives us rest (Matt. 11:28). It is rest from trying to earn our salvation in any way. As Christians, we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9) because we can never please God by any work we do (Isa. 64:6; Gal. 2:21). Only through Jesus and His work on the cross are we saved.
When the Galatian Christians sought to be circumcised, they were essentially trying to complete their salvation by a work of law. To this Paul said, "And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace," (Gal. 5:3-4). Why? because Rom. 11:6 says, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Unfortunately for the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Watchtower Organization is teaching that in order to be saved you must become 1) knowledgeable about the Father, 2) obey God's laws, 3) be associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and 4) be loyal in spreading the kingdom news of God.
Please take note that the Watchtower does not teach about coming to Christ as Jesus stated in Matt. 11:28. It does not focus on the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and what Jesus did. It does not mention what saves us in 1 Cor. 15:1-4; namely, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Instead, it focuses on the Father, itself as an organization, and works. It is the works issue that is the most problematic here. The Jehovah's Witness organization teaches works righteousness in combination with the sacrifice of Christ. This combination of our works and Jesus' sacrifice is a teaching that is not only a heresy, but also makes salvation void.
Works do not save us
- Rom. 3:28, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
- Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus..."
- See also, Rom. 4:5; 5:1; Gal. 3:11; Phil. 3:9.
Again as to quote the Watchtower above, "Many have found the second requirement more difficult. It is to obey Gods laws, yes, to conform ones life to the moral requirements set out in the Bible." And if this isn't enough, please consider the following quote:
"Accepting the message of salvation and devoting ourselves to God through Christ and being baptized in water is only the beginning of our exercise of faith. It is only the beginning of our obedience to God. It sets us on the way to everlasting life, but it does not mean our final salvation," This Means Everlasting Life, p. 181.")
As you can see, the Watchtower Organization teaches that salvation is dependent upon the work of the Jehovah's Witnesses and this is a doctrine that leads to damnation.
Are you doing enough works?
If you are a Jehovah's Witnesses, then are you doing enough works to be saved? Are all your hours going door to door really going to please God enough for Him to let you into Paradise Earth? Are you actually obeying God's laws? If not, why not?
Do you think that sincerity will make up the difference? If so, you're in for a rude awakening.
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? 23 "And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness, (Matt. 7:21-23).
Notice how those condemned on the day of judgment appealed to their works that they did in Jesus' name. In other words, they combined their faith and deeds in their appeal to Jesus for salvation. It was not by faith alone! Is that what you are doing? Are you relying on the complete grace of God in Christ alone or are you hoping to be able prove to God you are a worthy Jehovah's Witness by your deeds of obedience? You can never be made worthy by anything you do. All our deeds are filthy rags before the Lord (Isa. 64:6). That is why true Christians are justified (saved) by faith (Rom. 5:1).
True Christianity is the teaching that Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and because He is, His sacrifice is infinite in value. It is completely sufficient to save us from our sins, and does so. All we need to do is believe and by faith we are justified (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9). It is after we are saved that we then go out and do good works and keep His commandments. We do them because we are saved, not to get saved or to keep our salvation.
Are you good enough? Is your heart good enough? Are you sincere enough? Have you put enough hours going door-to-door? .... do you need a rest? If so, come to Jesus. Ask Him to forgive you of your sins.
Matt. 28:18, "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."
John 14:14, "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."
Matt. 11:28-30, "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 "Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. 30 "For My yoke is easy, and My load is light."
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NWT Bible has Clarity and clear language
by youdontknowhim inthe watchtower writes about their wonderful new world translation: .
"outstanding among bibles is the new world translation of the christian greek scriptures...accuracy, uniformity, clarity, and up-to-date language mark this excellent work.
according to the watchtower the nwt has accuracy, uniformity and most of clarity and up to date language.
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JCISGOD98
I see Rev, you are using my pictures I sent you.
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Test A JW with the Following Questions
by youdontknowhim indo you believe test
see old watchtower magazine from prior to 1930 known as the watchtower herald of christs presence.
the watchtower; sept. 15, 1922; page 278; jesus returned in 1874 to power.. .
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JCISGOD98
Whenever a JW comes out with the Light Getter Brighter doctrine, I give them what my bestfriend said,
I have often read, been told, and heard by JW's that the light gets brighter and brighter. I realize that this particular phrase comes from the Bible, but i fail to see it's application anywhere in the NT or OT. at least in the manner in which they explain it. It seems that they use this verse to justify all of their doctrinal shifts past and present. I never see God, the prophets or the apostles doing this. Lets say for example the 10 commandments. From the time that it was given to the time of...O lets say the book of Daniel. Did God ever change His mind about anything that He said. And if he did, did He contradict His former teachings and commands? I don't find this practiced anywhere in Scripture. All truth comes from God and is therefore eternal and cannot be changed. I find it very hard to believe that God's truths are seasonal and subject to change just like that. Jesus Christ is still The Way The Truth And The Life. I wonder why there hasn't been any "New Light" on this subject. Has God ever changed His view of this?