an active witness on fb just told me that they are taught to "always question what we are taught" and use not only the wt publications, but any research materials, and come to a conclusion about what they find!
this is not what i've heard from you guys!
does she go to some unusual-type kingdom hall, or is she mesing with my mind?.
You guys rock; thanks for your insights and suggestions. I will pass on your thoughts! Tricky how they speak out of both sides of their mouth on that issue, as on others.
MrFreeze: Wow, that makes my head spin - great point!
discreetslave: "Stick to reading Psalms when other Bible books stir up questions" LOL, that's rich!
oh good, glad you saw that, AgentZero
an active witness on fb just told me that they are taught to "always question what we are taught" and use not only the wt publications, but any research materials, and come to a conclusion about what they find!
this is not what i've heard from you guys!
does she go to some unusual-type kingdom hall, or is she mesing with my mind?.
An active Witness on FB just told me that they are taught to "always question what we are taught" and use not only the WT publications, but any research materials, and come to a conclusion about what they find!
This is not what i've heard from you guys! Does she go to some unusual-type Kingdom Hall, or is she mesing with my mind?
Cheers,
auntbee
there was a recent thread here which covered the subject of the gb claiming to be spirit directed (and not actually inspired by the holy spirit).
by now, most of us are quite aware that this is just a play with words to excuse themselves whenever one of their false doctrines is debunked (by someone using the bible or their own publications).
but when you think of it, spirit-directed is actually more presumptuous than spirit-inspired.. that being said, id really like to draw attention to the fact that the wt continuously claims that the governing body of jehovahs witnesses has never claimed to be inspired by god (through his holy spirit).
Some cool quotes from the WT literature concerning "imperfect men"
"You may wisely decide against putting your trust in imperfect men and their fallible predictions and promises." 3/15/66
"Build your hope on Scriptural truth, not on the imaginations of imperfect men." 1/1/68
"....how deep-seated within imperfect men can be the desire for distinction, to have prominent positions and prestige." 10/1/68
"The Bible's main objective is to provide sound guidance for living in harmony with the will of God. Logically, therefore, what it says should be far superior to what imperfect men not following it have recommended and continue to recommend as a guide." 3/1/75
"According to First Timothy 6:20 it would be unwise to fill one's mind with philosophies of imperfect men" (9/1/1975)
"whenever God's Word is displaced by the views of imperfect men as a source of guidance, serious problems can result." 4/1/78
"They (approved servants of God) are convinced that the head of the Christian congregation is the Lord Jesus Christ. They will not identify themselves with groups that exalt imperfect men;" 6/1/80
" Can you imagine the potential for abuse if Jesus' power were placed in the hands of an imperfect ruler? But Jesus was sinless. (1 Peter 2:22) He refused to be tainted by the selfishness, ambition, and greed that drive imperfect men to use their power to hurt others." (Close to Jehovah, p.93)
i read the ray franz book but witnesses just see the scripture about going "house to house".
how would you help a witness understand the reality?.
How about reading with them the whole context, especially in the Matthew 10 passage? Ask them to explain why they don't heal people or raise the dead. Ask why they go to Gentiles, and not just Jews? (Matthew 10:5, 8)
As for the shaking the dust off their feet, i don't know if it's common practice, but i did see them do this once.
I once offered some JWs out inservice a FREE Wt-FREE Bible study. They seemed quite startled, and looked at me like i was nuts.
This really struck me when i was looking at the Advance Medical Directive, espeically the preface "Points to Consider When Completing the Advance Medical Directive"
"When making your personal decision on minor fractions of blood, please read and consider the Bibilcal principles in the June 15, 2004 issue of the Watchtower, p. 22-24 and 29-31. Then, following the guidance of your Bible-trained conscience, initial on your Advance Medical Directive any of the following that apply: "
It's so easy! Read these WT pages, and then you a "Bible-trained" conscience on this serious matter! I guess they couldn't suggest reading an actual Bible passage on acceptable blood fractions..... for obvious reasons.
long story, but i was talking online with someone who has been dfed for a long time, encouraging her to join a support group.
-- the person has been trying to get reinstated for years.
described how she has felt unwelcome and unsupported and is depressed.
Thanks all for the helpful comments and information! That definitely answered my question StoneWall.
cheers, auntbee
jesus was the leader, the rabbi, the teacher and he chose his apostles.. they followed him, they listened, they obeyed.. but--did they have their say?.
did they ask stupid questions and get answers?.
did they have opinions that were voiced, heard and answered?.
That is such a great post, Terry! I've thought about that a lot as a mother of a large family, in reading many JW stories, and seeing lots of YouTubes.
As you said, being a christian, following Jesus was more than just obedience. -- I've noticed that in JW world, it seems like all the parents care about with their older kids is that they...... GO TO THE MEETINGS. Many are not even caring/trying to persuade them of the truth of it all, as long as the kids keep going to the meetings, that will keep the parents happy.
With most of the Christians i know, from various denominations, keeping the kids 'in church' is not the main goal. We desire that they come to the Faith, really and truly, in their hearts. And this cannot be coerced. Many allow and even expect times of questioning, doubting, etc. Our goal isn't to have their bodies in a pew to please us or make us look good.
My own son is almost 17 and hasn't attended church in a year. He is reading about all kinds of religions right now, and makes no claim to be a Christian. How can i deny him his own spiritual journey? Do i pray for him? You Bet! Do i try to make little points occasionally, or suggest things for him to read once in a while? yes. Do i look down on him for this? NO WAY.
long story, but i was talking online with someone who has been dfed for a long time, encouraging her to join a support group.
-- the person has been trying to get reinstated for years.
described how she has felt unwelcome and unsupported and is depressed.
Long story, but i was talking online with someone who has been DFed for a long time, encouraging her to join a support group. -- THe person has been trying to get reinstated for YEARS. Described how she has felt UNWELCOME and UNSUPPORTED and is DEPRESSED. She is always told she is not doing enough "works of repentence." After sharing these things, she stated.... i want to come back!
I don't really get it, if it is indeed just a publishing company, what's the deal with making reinstatement so impossible? Don't they want to increase their numbers, mag distribution, etc.?
I asked her to notice in the Gospels how Jesus treated repentent sinners. Did He forgive their sins right on the spot and show great compassion, or did He make them jump through hoops for years to prove their sincerity? I asked her if in her heart of hearts she really believes this type of thing is Biblical or Christ-like at all?
It struck me so much like codependency in a bad relationship, so sad.
in researching and writing this, a thought occurred to me.... has anyone ever asked this: if the society is "the faithful and discreet slave" of mat 24, they have been given authority over all of christ's belongings (including the people), are spirit-led and god's sole means of communication, and are entrusted with revealing "food at the proper time", why are they held to a lower standard than the "other sheep"?.
if they blatantly violate scripture, if they make false prophecies, if they reverse their decisions repeatedly, if they go way beyond what is written, if they hold a position for years or decades which is obviously and finally admitted to be false, they are given a total pass as "imperfect men" and "not infallible".
meanwhile, if you or i have a belief jws feel is "wrong" - we're not spirit-directed mouthpieces of god - why are we "apostates"?
Ugh, forgot to switch to Google Chrome. -- I just said i've thought about what you said sd-7, about the message being flawed vs the people delivering it being flawed, etc. Wow, i love the way you put that so clearly into words - thanks!
