Posts by passwordprotected

20

Why is the act of stopping meeting attendance so significant?

by dozy in

jw
friends

one aspect of the leaving jw process has long puzzled me why can a fading jw become mentally disinterested , miss loads of meetings , become irregular in the ministry , perhaps even become involved in minor worldly conduct without too much concern from relatives or the elders over a period of years , even decades.

yet as soon as they make it become known that they are not going to the meetings anymore, all hell breaks loose.

elders dust down their od books and come calling on shepherding visits , perhaps for the first time for many years.

passwordprotected

Stopping attending meetings signifies;

- no longer "loving Jehovah"

- turning one's back on Jehovah

- tacit admission of wrongdoing

When I stopped attending the meetings, and told an elder (James Bovill) such, his reply included "you've turned your back on Jehovah", "Jehovah gives us two choices, life or death, it's clear which choice you've made", and "well, if there's wrongdoing involved it's best not to discuss it with others" (there was no wrongdoing involved).

Christians are supposed to believe that salvation comes through going to the Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses believe it comes from going to the meetings.

67

What JW apologist do not understand.

by Anti-Christ in

the more i read the comments made by jw who still "believe" in the doctrines of the wt the more i see that they are in denial.

first off they debate on a board they are not even supposed to be on, they are going directly against the gb counsel.

when they debate they do not give the actual wt doctrine as an example they give their own personal opinion, their own interpretation a watered down version of the doctrine to make it look better, less aggressive.

passwordprotected

Why do the JW apologists like Reniaa, Spike and angeleyes all write the same? Lots of random mis-spelling and lols.

19

Reasoning From the Scriptures - are they working on an update?

by insearchoftruth in

a couple of questions on this, firstly, is there a pdf of this book available??

.

secondly, is anyone here aware of an update, due to the changing of the doctrine, this book is starting to become sprinkled with 'old light'........

passwordprotected

It's laughable that the "faithful slave" has a policy that disfellowships Jehovah's Witnesses for worshipping Jesus when the same "faithful slave" publishes a book that concedes that Jesus is indeed worshipped according to the Bible.

Oh, the laughs.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

The "Family Worship Night" TM is proving to be a bust as witnessed by the emphasis on it during this Summer's convention program. The Governing Body will see fit to further regulate in the guise of helping. I can see that they would provide a set program for families to follow, citing the difficulties some parents are having preparing a weekly program of "worship". So the GB will perhaps move the Book Study, Bible reading, and maybe elements of the Service meeting, such as rehearsing field service presentations, to "Family Worship Night" TM This would make room during the weekly meeting to consider the Private Watchtower.

Yep, I'd say that was an absolute given. Note a recent WT article entitled "Family Worship - Vital for Survival" where the GB outlines various ways of filling the evening...expect, as you say, a formal outline of 'study' and 'worship'*.

*this always makes me laugh. They're actually worshipping bits of paper with stuff printed on them.

7

Robert Wright:"A Grand Bargain Over Evolution"

by BurnTheShips in

robert wright is the author of "the evolution of god".

here is his thought provoking article on science and faith.. august 23, 2009op-ed contributora grand bargain over evolution .

by robert wright .

passwordprotected

William James said that religious belief is “the belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.” Science has its own version of the unseen order, the laws of nature. In principle, the two kinds of order can themselves be put into harmony — and in that adjustment, too, may lie a supreme good.

Good stuff.

26

What's the best thing about no longer being a JW?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

i was thinking about how life has improved since leaving 3 years ago.. what has changed for you?

what's the best thing about no longer being a jw?.

bts.

passwordprotected

Being free from the Governing Body's religious dogmas and having friends who are unconditional in their love and respect.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

@ zombie dub;

just the public talk would be the way to go, albeit with 99% of the people not being public, they could spin it by saying even more time for FS afterwards. But then if they shunt the WT to mid week then the study book would have to go... which makes sense, they must be out of books to write and the ones which deal with Daniel, Isaiah and Revelation are probably the cause of many people's exit so would be good for them to drop them.

I think we're on the same page.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

In my area the religious majority (Protestant) chrurches (not sure of RCCs so I am staying silent) have Sunday Service and then another Wednesday Worship. So I can see the idea of an hour-long sermon/singing session and shuffling the WT (or other vehicle) into a Sunday school mode and perhaps reducing the mid-week meeting to a scriptural lesson that focuses on the control aspect. I just don't understand the direction of the alleged rumors should the FWN engulf the mid-week entirely.

Churches locally have the following services;

Sunday -

morning service consisting of worship, notices, Sunday school, a reading and teaching from the Bible and (depending on the church) communion
evening service consisting of worship then very focused teaching on various Christian topics/practical Christian living, etc

Midweek

community/small groups, usually meeting in private homes for times of worship, discussion, prayer etc
Bible study groups, usually meeting in private homes for study and prayer

My own church has the following;

Sunday -

Family Service - 12noon till 1pm - worship, notices, Sunday school, 30 minute reading and teaching geared towards the public, i.e. non-Christians, new Christians
Evening Service - 6pm till 7.30pm - worship, prayer, short readings with some lay-teaching, communion and a 30 minute talk aimed more at the needs of existing Christians

Monday -

Monday Group - small group meets at the church for either a time of extended prayer, a Q&A session (questions submitted to the elders in advance) or a focused study programme

If the Governing Body were to introduce a Sunday Meeting-lite where it was a 'wholesome, 'upbuilding', 'Bible-based' sermon aimed at the public (JW attendance would be compulsory), then they'd be fitting a more 'normal', less cult-ish pattern.

The Study Edition would move to the mega-meeting and everything else would be foisted onto Family Worship Night.

This would work for them on a number of levels, not least they look more like a regular church, they shield the public from the cultdom and they relieve the elders of much of the teaching.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

"He did not mean that ONLY the "public" would be there, but that both JWs and "public" would ................"

But that's exactly how it is now? and has been for decades? If PP meant that then what is different?

----

That's what we're trying to figure out. If this rumour is true then it suggests that the Governing Body don't really want the public to be on hand when the Study Edition is being 'studied' at the Sunday meeting. They used to have a gap between the Public Talk and the WT Study on Sunday, and some old timers thought that the reduction in length of the Public Talk was going to bring this arrangement back in again.

If they're planning a PUBLIC public meeting, ie. a 'wholesome, 'upbuilding', 'Bible-based' sermon on Sundays (and obviously, JW attendance would be mandatory), it would be to create a real demarkation between what's for PUBLIC consumption (like the PUBLIC edition of the Watchtower (which JWs are supposed to read, too)), and what's for the R&F.

The model for this is already in place within their literature output.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

I don't think the Governing Body is interested in growing numbers. I think they're more interested in whittling and winnowing.

Think about it;

7 million Jehovah's Witnesses, 50% of whom (random figure) aren't really die-hards and are more interested in being socialites than Bethelites

or

3 million Jehovah's Witnesses who have proven their loyalty to 'mother' by sticking with the Governing Body, no matter what they're told to do

Which is more easier to control or extract 'donations' from?