The way some of thejws react, encluding my wife,it sort of makes you feel like they are possessed it is kind of spooky.
Very good point....
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Does everyone else get this reaction from their JW family when discussing objections to the religion?
by jambon1 inwhen pointing out my objections to the jw religion with my wife, i have noticed a worrying trend which even after 3 or 4 years shows no sign of relenting.. after speaking calmly for an hour or so and logically pointing out my objections, my wife starts to put forward outrageous assertations about my points.
for instance, if i am refering to the fact that disfellowshipping is a form of extreem punishment & i mention the terrible effects that being d/f'd can have on people, she will eventually retort with something like "so what you are saying is that we should tolerate paedophiles, rapists & thieves in the organisation then?".
of course, i've never at any point said anything of the sort.. or if i have been overly critical of the amount of control the society wants over peoples lives, she would reply "so what you are saying is that we should all just go out & do what we want, get drunk & live an immoral life?
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Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?
by AK - Jeff inin her book, introduction to christianity, mary jo weaver says this:.
"some christians think that jesus was so clearly the messiah that no one could fail to recognize him as such...... christians who see jews as a 'problem' might be surprised to learn that jesus has been a continual puzzle for the jews.
medieval jews tended to picture jesus as an apostate jew, a man who had lost his faith; 19th century jewish scholars had an image of jesus as a great ethical teacher.
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Whether or not Jesus was/is the Messiah is not important to me- if he only said and did half of the things written about him, then he was a great man, much can be learned from his simple messages of love and much can be acomplished by following his examples- I have many freinds who call themselves ChristianDeists (but I'm going to start a different thread for that).
This, though, is where it can get tricky; if Jesus was the Messiah, if he was the Son of God, if he was the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world, if he's the way, the truth and the life, relegating him to just a great guy is dangerous and misses the point of the Gospel message.
While following his example can be good for us and our neighbour, recognising his position as mediator and going to him for forgiveness and life is key.
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Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?
by AK - Jeff inin her book, introduction to christianity, mary jo weaver says this:.
"some christians think that jesus was so clearly the messiah that no one could fail to recognize him as such...... christians who see jews as a 'problem' might be surprised to learn that jesus has been a continual puzzle for the jews.
medieval jews tended to picture jesus as an apostate jew, a man who had lost his faith; 19th century jewish scholars had an image of jesus as a great ethical teacher.
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What other prophets pointed to themselves as the solution other than Jesus? Mohammed, for example, points away from himself. Jesus tells us to come to him for life.
Also, while Islam is massive, Jesus' teachings are based on love; love your neighbour as yourself, love your enemy etc.
Faith isn't based on sight. Faith is based on promises. But the Bible tells us that a deposit of such promises is placed in the heart of a person who chooses to enter into a relationship with Jesus.
Christians don't insist on faith, the Bible does. And if the Bible is the Word of God, then this insistence comes from Jesus himself.
Even if all of this stuff about Jesus is a probability rather than hard, evidence-based fact, I just wonder if it bears close, personal examination, because if it's true, if we can have life and life to the full through Christ right now, plus eternal life as a guarantee, then it's serious stuff.
Romans 5: 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we a have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we b rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we c also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
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Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?
by AK - Jeff inin her book, introduction to christianity, mary jo weaver says this:.
"some christians think that jesus was so clearly the messiah that no one could fail to recognize him as such...... christians who see jews as a 'problem' might be surprised to learn that jesus has been a continual puzzle for the jews.
medieval jews tended to picture jesus as an apostate jew, a man who had lost his faith; 19th century jewish scholars had an image of jesus as a great ethical teacher.
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but they seem to conceive of it as the only idea of God there is and seemingly close their minds to other possibilities.
...and let's not leave out the Christians who seem to conceive of only a Biblical God and seemingly close their minds to other possibilities.
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How does personal experience factor in, even if said personal experience seems to fly in the face of other possibilities or logic?
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Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?
by AK - Jeff inin her book, introduction to christianity, mary jo weaver says this:.
"some christians think that jesus was so clearly the messiah that no one could fail to recognize him as such...... christians who see jews as a 'problem' might be surprised to learn that jesus has been a continual puzzle for the jews.
medieval jews tended to picture jesus as an apostate jew, a man who had lost his faith; 19th century jewish scholars had an image of jesus as a great ethical teacher.
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If I was going to reject God, then I wanted to make sure that I was rejecting Him based on what and who He actually was, and not the Watchtower's Jehovah that I had been raised to worship.
All too often, I see atheists here arguing against Watchtower's idea of God. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I argue against their ideas too, but they seem to conceive of it as the only idea of God there is and seemingly close their minds to other possibilities.
BTS
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What BTS said. The God I knew as a Jehovah's Witnesses (and when I say 'knew', I mean through reading the Watchtower) is not the God I know have a relationship with through Christ.
If there probably isn't a God, it's probably best to check first before rejecting the probability out of hand...
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Did Jesus ever claim Messiahship?
by AK - Jeff inin her book, introduction to christianity, mary jo weaver says this:.
"some christians think that jesus was so clearly the messiah that no one could fail to recognize him as such...... christians who see jews as a 'problem' might be surprised to learn that jesus has been a continual puzzle for the jews.
medieval jews tended to picture jesus as an apostate jew, a man who had lost his faith; 19th century jewish scholars had an image of jesus as a great ethical teacher.
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John 4: 25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·si´ah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one arrives, he will declare all things to us openly.” 26 Jesus said to her: “I who am speaking to you am he.”
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Bethel Brother for 15 years called to "head office" thought he was qoute: "Going to get fired."
by Witness 007 inhe's been there since the early 1980's and was called to the "head office" for the first time in 15 years!
i was told he crapped himself saying i qoute: "i thought they were going to fire me.
" instead he got a free trip to korea to represent our bethel during the next convention....a reward or bonus for his many years of service....the elder who told me about this said how "kind" bethel is to do this, but i just thought damn, the guys been getting $50 bucks a month pay for 15 years...at least send him to disneyland as well!.
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I was told the housemaids are instructed to look at the brothers' bed sheets for 'compromising stains'. Finding a Kiss album is no biggie..
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CO/DF'ing Rumor Rationale
by metatron inin the past year, there have been many rumors about changes in the co arrangement as well as disfellowshipping.
i think that there is a solid legal rationale for these proposed changes that relates strongly to these two areas.. it's called 'deep pockets' and the chain of command.. consider the fact that elders are appointed by the watchtower society and have the power to expel members from the entire organization.
this is very different from the first century during which you could be tossed out of one synagogue/church but accepted somewhere else.. the elders send out records of each disfellowshipping to headquarters attesting to the fact that the organization is strongly centralized.
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Great post. There's no doubt in my mind that the WTS is on the cusp of major change and reform. It's going to be interesting to watch it pan out.
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Makers Of Vaccination Refuse To Take H1N1
by What-A-Coincidence inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4smfxyust0.
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For those who place their faith in scientists, y'know, the scientists who come up with these vaccinations or advise governments on policies to do with "planned parenting", will you resist when they force you to be chemically castrated because science has decided you don't fit in their profiles?
You're a nut. Seriously.
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Well, at least you addressed the point.
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Makers Of Vaccination Refuse To Take H1N1
by What-A-Coincidence inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4smfxyust0.
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Sounds like LeavingWT and I are on the same page.