Posts by passwordprotected

50

What proof is there that Jesus chose the Bible Students in 1919?

by VM44 in

what proof is there that jesus inspected all the religions or the earth in 1919 and then chose the bible students?.

just because the watchtower says in its literature that they were chosen is not proof!.

passwordprotected

The WTBTS has normally pointed to the liberation from prison of Rutherford and the directors, followed by their "zealous preaching" as proof of their selection.

However, this line of evidence relies upon Jesus having returned and found them awaiting his arrival in 1914, something that the Proclaimers book refutes; they were saying Jesus had returned in 1874 by the time 1914 rolled around.

Therefore their evidence doesn't stand even cursory scrutiny:

what was Jesus looking for among Christendom?
- a people awaiting his arrival and serving "spiritual food" of high quality
the Bible Students (under CT Russell and then Rutherford) were preaching in 1914 that Jesus had returned 40 years earlier (Russell had sold his business and poured his resources into publishing literature to that effect
- in 1914 the Bible Students weren't alert and waiting for Christ's return; they'd announced it as 1874
the Bible Students would not have met with Jesus' alleged criteria for selection, regardless of how high a quality their "spiritual food" was
- therefore Jesus did not choose them in 1919

All of that being said, the years 1914 and 1919 are almost exclusively associated with the Watch Tower Society. As Jesus couldn't have chosen them in 1919, there is absolutely no basis for any Christian to believe that the Watch Tower Society (via the Bible Students and then Jehovah's Witnesses) speaks for God or was chosen by God.

The Witnesses are unable to rebut this point by invoking Proverbs 18 and "the light getting brighter" as Christ wouldn't have been refining the Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses since 1919. He didn't choose them. Therefore not once has he revealed "new truths" to them.

The scale and scope of the circular logic needed to believe and support the 1919 selection is mind boggling.

It's always worth pointing out to a Witness what the "advertise advertise advertise" campaign by the Bible Students upon their "selection" in 1919 consisted of:

“For six thousand years God has been preparing for this kingdom. For nineteen hundred years he has been gathering out the kingdom class from amongst men.

Since 1874 the King of glory has been present; and during that time he has conducted a harvest and has gathered unto himself the temple class.

Since 1914 the King of glory has taken his power and reigns. He has cleansed the lips of the temple class and sends them forth with the message. The importance of the message of the kingdom cannot be overstated.

It is the message of all messages. It is the message of the hour. It is incumbent upon those who are the Lord’s to declare it.

The kingdom of heaven is at hand; the King reigns; Satan’s empire is falling; millions now living will never die….
The world must know that Jehovah is God and that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords. This is the day of all days.
Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents. Therefore advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom! “
Source

I've blogged about 1919 and the lack of evidence on my blog.

15

Increased promotion of 'worship' to the Faithful Slave in the Watchtower

by callitquits76 in

jw
friends

i have heard it said that over the past few months, the magazines have been filled with pro-gb garbage promoting complete obedience to the body.

can anybody point me to any examples?.

passwordprotected

My opinion is that The Governing Body are looking to tighten their grip on the rank and file Witnesses. Expect this to increase in the lead up to 2014, while at the same time they try and distance themselves doctrinally from 1914.

Watchtower articles from the last 6 months are filled with examples of the Witnesses being encouraged to, essentially, worship The Governing Body and the Organisation.

Here are a few:

- Submit to the Governing Body

- The Governing Body This, The Governing Body That (quotes from 2011 Year Book)

- Do Jehovah's Witnesses Have Human Leaders?

- Obeying The Governing Body Means Your Life. Eternally

- Jehovah's Witnesses: Who is Your Leader? (4 part series examining recent exhortations from The Governing Body regarding obeying them without question, all from recent WT articles)

1

MAY 15 STUDY WT Christ is Leader. But Whom Must You Submit To?

by passwordprotected in

critical analysis of the article:.

following christ, the perfect leader, page 26 (excerpt);.

never one to miss an opportunity to roll out matthew 24:45 (the third most referenced scripture in all watch tower society publications), we again move away from christ as perfect leader (perfect meaning without flaw and therefore never having to change) onto the ever-changing doctrine of the governing body.. organ transplants, blood fractions, 1935 sealing of the anointed, the meaning of the generation, to name but a few of the various flip-flops from brooklyn that the witnesses, en masse and without question, must immediately accept are here glossed over as the light getting brighter.. rather than focusing our eyes on christ and christ alone as perfect leader, the witnesses have to prove their co-operation with jesus by humbly submitting to whatever the governing body has published in that weeks watchtower study article.does having to completely change your end-time exegesis on the whim of the governing body mean disappointment?

passwordprotected

Critical analysis of the article:

Following Christ, the Perfect Leader”, page 26 (excerpt);

Never one to miss an opportunity to roll out Matthew 24:45 (the third most referenced scripture in all Watch Tower Society publications), we again move away from Christ as perfect leader (perfect meaning without flaw and therefore never having to change) onto the ever-changing doctrine of The Governing Body.

Organ transplants, blood fractions, 1935 sealing of the anointed, the meaning of “the generation”, to name but a few of the various flip-flops from Brooklyn that the Witnesses, en masse and without question, must immediately accept are here glossed over as “the light getting brighter”.

Rather than focusing our eyes on Christ and Christ alone as perfect leader, the Witnesses have to “prove their co-operation” with Jesus by humbly submitting to whatever The Governing Body has published in that week’s Watchtower study article.

Does having to completely change your end-time exegesis on the whim of The Governing Body mean disappointment? Rememeber the opening sentence of this article states:

“THOSE who follow human rulers often experience disappointment. However, the effect of Christ’s leadership on those who submit to it is quite different.”

How many were disappointed to learn that Jesus evidently meant something very different when he said “this generation” to what they’d been brought up to believe he evidently meant?
How many were disappointed to learn that organ transplants weren’t displeasing to Jehovah after they’d lost a child or a marriage mate to a disease that an organ transplant could have cured?

Where did that disappointment come from?

Jesus perfectly refreshing leadership (according to the article)
- or
Humans like The Governing Body

Read the full critique here.

49

You just gotta read the story, Fade From the Truth, A Tale of Learning Then Unlearning the Beliefs of JWs

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

every once in a while there's a story so well told that it deserves lots and lots of kudos and plugs.

here's that 124-book length story which is the first one linked from "exclusive autobiographies" on the home page of www.watchtowerdocuments.com.

read it free!.

passwordprotected

deleted!

15

Church that changed?

by semelcred in

can anyone please help me to find the link to the church that changed or reviewed its doctrines.

i remember seeing a documentary somewhere.. many thanks.

j.

passwordprotected

It was the Worldwide Church of God, a cult similar to the Watchtower Society circa. "Judge" Rutherford.

Watch the documentary on my blog, if you want.

32

2011 Yearkbook - Provisions through the Governing Body

by pirata in

excerpts from the 2011 yearbook highlights of the past year:.

tracing all things with accuracy.

(p.9) jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time".

passwordprotected

Stunning arrogance. Keep on tightening the grip.

116

Does Genesis 19 condemn Homosexuality?

by brotherdan in

there are many "proof" texts that people (including jws) use to justify their rejection of anyone that is gay.

there are a few scriptures that you can pull up and try to make a case for show homosexuals why they are evil and wrong.. i've been researching more of these scriptures and i'm coming to some very different conclusions than many other christians hold, especially jws.

i wanted to talk about the first text used by many people to condemn homosexual behaviour.

passwordprotected

It is disingenuous to say that the city was destroyed because of lack of hospitality.

Why?

If the explanation for the destruction of Sodom, namely its sin or lack of righteousness, is explained in the Bible, how is it disingenuous to hold to that view?

Perhaps we struggle in our post-Watchtower pit of confusion to see that homosexuality might not be the ire-inducing crime the Governing Body (and mainstream, "orthodox", evangelicals) says it is. My understanding of Jesus is that he was always more concerned about social justice than sexual sin. His righteousness reflected that of the Father, therefore the Father is angered and upset by the poor and needy being ignored or abused. And that was what was going on in Sodom.

116

Does Genesis 19 condemn Homosexuality?

by brotherdan in

there are many "proof" texts that people (including jws) use to justify their rejection of anyone that is gay.

there are a few scriptures that you can pull up and try to make a case for show homosexuals why they are evil and wrong.. i've been researching more of these scriptures and i'm coming to some very different conclusions than many other christians hold, especially jws.

i wanted to talk about the first text used by many people to condemn homosexual behaviour.

passwordprotected

The sin of Sodom wasn't homosexuality or sexual depravity.

Ezekiel 16:49 says it was being arrogant, greedy, overfed and having no regard for the poor or needy.

That's more in line with Jesus than it is with fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity. So, which is right?

As for Lot and his willingness to let his daughters be raped, that speaks more about the man than it does about God. Genesis is documenting what happened, but doesn't make any moral commentary on it.

God saved Lot and his kin, not because of how righteous they were, but because of his grace.

God doesn't hate gay people; he hates arrogant fat arses who don't give a damn about the poor. This is borne out by the prophets who continually warned Israel, not about their disregard for the Law, but about their lack of social justice. And in the life of Jesus, who didn't condemn anyone for their sexuality, but who spoke up for the poor, marginalised and down-trodden in society.

How come so many "students of the Bible" miss that?

206

I need a show of hands: who believes the Bible and to what extent?

by Terry in

i'll start off.. i don't believe anything is divine about bible writings.

i believe there may be some marginal history although not much.

i think alot of folk tales and regional myths are contained in the old testament.

passwordprotected

Who believes the Bible about what?

In most respects I agree with Syl. The Church has created a monster, in some ways, with how they handle the Bible. Words like "authority" and "inerrant" don't help anyone.

47

This is perhaps the funniest thing you will ever see on this forum

by Hobo Ken in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phvc_jv6vte.

passwordprotected

"Failed haberdasher"; I coined that. You owe me 50p.