Posts by passwordprotected

47

WTS causing more anguish

by GapingMouth in

i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

passwordprotected

"Religion needs to be fixed because it causes so much trouble and ultimately is the perpetuation of false hope & an incorrect view of history & the place therein of certain groups of people"

Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot; common denominator? Wanted a world without religion. Oh, and atheism. They were morally autonomous and they murdered a lot of people along the way. Nice world to live in.

"You were preaching, pure & simple. It was inappropriate & poorly timed. And i called you out on it.

End of."

What do fundie atheists call it when they preach about science?

"Yes, he is very much against Hitler, as am i & pretty much most other people on earth. And don't go & equate eugenics with Darwinism, that has been debunked & is a strawman. Animal eugenics existed long before Darwin."

Is Dawkins very much against Hitler? Why has he stated that it's about time that we started seriously considering what Hitler was actually trying to accomplish? Surely what Hitler was trying to accomplish should be completely forgotten and disregarded?

As for equating eugenics with Darwinism well I wasn't - I was asking you if you knew what Dawkins view of eugenics was, but now you've brought it up, what was the title of Darwin's best known book? "The Origins of the Species By Means of Natural Selection Or The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life". And what is definition of eugenics, exactly? I quote;

"the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, esp. by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)."

----

At the end of the day, you've got your faith that science explains everything (which many scientists don't agree with, btw, hence so many of them being Christians I suppose) and I have my faith in the existence of God.

"If it's ok with you, i'll think for myself."

But do you? Or do you read books like everyone else to help you form your world view?

May you go in peace.

3

Huge expose of Scientology - June 23rd 2009 St Petersburg Times

by besty in

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/.

ya think jw's are bad - scour through some of this lot.. .

beatings handed out on a regular basis by the chairman david miscavigedeaths in captivity, with incriminating evidence destroyedirs intimidation campaign to be declared a tax free religion .

passwordprotected

I'll compare what's been written about Scientology and my own experiences as JW (i.e. never being good enough etc), which what is taught in the Bible by Jesus and through the message of Jesus;

- if you're in Jesus, you're always good enough.

Yes, it's painfully simplistic, but it makes a huge difference to the psyche to know that you're already good enough.

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

passwordprotected

"Apostasy or disassociation still sound as "honourable exit" to most JW minds. This shows that the policy of anathema rests on fear (of consequences) rather than moral agreement."

I wholehearted disagree. I was told by a family member that it would have been preferable for me to be conducting adulterous affairs rather than doubting the teachings of the Governing Body. I was also told that I've brought more shame on my family than my DFd brother, who had led - by his own admission - a colourful life, to say the least.

I'm still married the same woman (whom I love), I still raise my 3 children in a moral way, I still work hard to provide for them, I still believe in God and value the Bible but that it is regarded as a disgrace that I no longer believe in Watch Tower Society dogma.

47

WTS causing more anguish

by GapingMouth in

i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

passwordprotected

"We haven't outgrown God because we're still needy & easy to take advantage of, not because he exists. The fact you can't demonstrate his existence drives my point home, the name calling is just to let you know that i don't take the existence of christianity lightly, i see it as a very bad thing that needs to be fixed.

Exhibit A) the thread starter, completely at a loss, comes here for advice... why? Because christianity has messed his life up! My advice to him is that he should privately tell the elders where to put their briefcases."

I wouldn't equate JW elders with Christianity. Although it's an easy mistake to make.

I seem to remember learning in history lessons in school that Stalin tried to eradicate religion, including Christianity, from Russia and it resulted in the loss of millions of lives *. I'm assuming you're suggesting something very similar when you describe it as needing to be "fixed". How do you fix something that is innately in human beings without murdering them? You're coming across as stringently zealous as I'm sure you'd accuse the JW elders as being.

Quite why believing in Jesus and doing your best to love your neighbours and your enemies is a "very bad thing" doesn't actually make any logical sense and hints at a level of antipathy towards another way of thinking that runs through the veins of only the most dogmatic. But then, Dawkins does describe love as being a part of evolution that's mis-firing.

Have you read Dawkins view of eugenics, Hitler and what he felt Hitler was trying to accomplish?

If it's ok with you, I'll follow the teachings of Jesus.

Also if you were able to put over your argument for your own choice of faith without name calling that would be decent.

* Edited as I decided to check this figure. From Wikipedia;

Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938. [ 66 ] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.

Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed.

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

passwordprotected

"Actually I was more thinking if he was df'd for apostasy then It would explain why he wants to go high profile with the andersons.

He is going in opposition PUBLICALLY not just on debate forums, like the andersons went high profile and is being secretive about why he was df'd this smacks of sour grapes towards the Jehovah's witnesses.

If it is for immorality which I think the major proportion of df-ings are for, well again that would explain some of it, since it would explain his hostility as well, especially if he has decided to get angry rather than take a rebuke on morality."

Quite what that has to do with anything he may have to say about his experiences in puzzling. Let the listener use discernment.

Out of interest, Reniaa, how honest with us have you been about yourself? You say you've got a small baby and two other children and that you're raising them on your own. Were you judicially reproved for your actions?

12

Is The MJ Situation Damaging to the WTS

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

with so many articles and news stories on-line regarding michael jackson, his involvement with the jws and now his children being taken to the kingdom hall, will this damage the reputation of the watch tower society?

many of these articles have comments from exjws telling the truth about 'the truth', plus google searches are throwing people onto freeminds..

passwordprotected

With so many articles and news stories on-line regarding Michael Jackson, his involvement with the JWs and now his children being taken to the Kingdom Hall, will this damage the reputation of the Watch Tower Society? Many of these articles have comments from exJWs telling the truth about 'the truth', plus Google searches are throwing people onto Freeminds.

47

WTS causing more anguish

by GapingMouth in

i don't really know where to start on my first post; i feel i have so much to say and yet i am so emotionally tired that it is hard to go through it all again in my head.

but, i do need support and advice and so i will make the effort.. i started having doubts about certain beliefs of the witnesses about 2 years ago and did research since that i now come to the belief there is no god, and witnesses definitely are a cult.. at first it bothered me more on the god issue, but now i am more bothered by the cult issue, mainly because it dictates my life even though i am aware of it.. when i was a child, my mother and father divorced and my mother told me i will live with my father because she was going to die at armageddon being a non witness.

i think, as well as many other pressures i cant list for fear of a very long post, this was the main pressure that made me get baptized even though i wasn't that happy being a witness.

passwordprotected

"It never takes long for religious fanatics to hijack threads on here.

Dawkin's words may be one reason to not believe in God, but the bullshit that most christians come out with is the main reason i do not. If you're not interested in helping people but would rather just preach your theological virus to them then i suggest you avoid posting in threads like this. The thread starter is already having trouble with a cult, don't try and use that against him to tempt him into another cult."

As you say, Dawkins says we should have outgrown God by now. But we haven't. Why is that? Didn't Nietzsche say back in the 1800s that God was dead? Yet here we are in the 21st Century and people like Dawkins are still trying to insist on something that isn't true, namely we should have outgrown God.

Anyway, not to derail the thread.

PS. Keep up the name calling, by the way. It really helps to drive your point home.

20

JW mystery!!! "What came down from heaven?"

by Deputy Dog in

jw mystery!!!

"what came down from heaven?

" i need a knowledgeable witness to help me with this question.. in john 6:51 jesus says: "i am the living bread that came down out of heaven" .

passwordprotected

If Jesus is the living manna, why don't they "eat" him? Didn't the Israelites have to eat the manna to have life?

20

JW mystery!!! "What came down from heaven?"

by Deputy Dog in

jw mystery!!!

"what came down from heaven?

" i need a knowledgeable witness to help me with this question.. in john 6:51 jesus says: "i am the living bread that came down out of heaven" .

passwordprotected

Interesting question.

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

passwordprotected

What if he was disfellowshipped for being immoral? Would that mean that we'd have to avoid hearing what he had to say?

Reniaa, if that's the yard stick, then you would have to understand if we applied this principle to you; you are, afterall, an admittedly immoral person. You just weren't DFd for it.