below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.
the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.
what a pity they won't open their eyes;.
:The fact that there are pedophiles anywhere, in any churches, including those of Jehovah's Witnesses is indeed lamentable. But what is also lamentable is that many think that this story is indigenous to JW's alone.:
I think this Jw hit the proverbial nail on the head. Pedophilia is lamentable. It is also probably rare among jws. Only bigotted persons would present such information as dakota has presented it. The jw is not advocating or approving of pedos.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Dear 4christ:
:What would you think if the figure is accurate? I suppose the only way to know for sure would be to check the files at the WT. I dont see them being forthcoming with that information. Perhaps at some point, they will be compelled by the courts to be forthcoming with that information.:
I think that it is hard to know what the true figure is. That does not give Bowen the right to just pluck a number out of the air. Checking the files of the WT would not help because you and I both know that some cases of molestation go unreported. So do you think it is fair to again blame matters on the WT? If the courts force that info out of them, then so be it.
:Besides, the exact number is not important. The issue is,
DOES THE WATCHTOWER HAVE POLICIES IN PLACE THAT PROTECT PEDOPHILES?:
The exact or near-exact number is important when we are talking about being truthful. I agree, if the WT has policies that enable molesters, that is bad. but at this point we do not know the answer to that question. We do, however, know that Bowen is claiming there are 23,000 cases of molestation in the US alone among Witnesses. I do not think he is being truthful. Or--at least he is not being scientific.
:Why do you take a not confirming or denying stance of affiliation? If you ARE, why wouldnt you admit it? Is it something to be ashamed of? If you arent , why wouldnt you admit that? Silence speaks louder than words. I will assume you are indeed a JW until you say otherwise.:
I take a non-confirming stance because I think some things transcend religious affiliation. You can consider me whatever you will. But I stand for Christ and truth.
:saying that you would give Bill more credit if he werent a disgruntled JW also gives you away. Why is that? Would you give less credit to someone who spoke out about the Catholic pedo-priests and was "disgruntled" with that church than someone who continued in the Catholic faith? besides, seems the policies are what made him "disgruntled" in the first place.:
The disgruntled are always hard to trust. Even among the Catholics. I am not saying that disgruntled victims are always being less than honest. But Bowen has never been molested, to my knowledge.
:He is an insider, was an elder, knows what goes on at those meetings. He took a big risk throwing himself out there. Why shouldnt I believe him?:
Do you know both sides of the story. If not, proceed with caution.
:What possible motive would cause him to "invent" this?
I agree that people should not invent stories to make an org. (or an individual for that matter) look bad. What stories have been "invented"?:
I am still trying to figure out Bowen's motives. But I do think that he invented (or someone else did) the number 23,000. Bowen also told private details about JC meetings he sat on. That is not ethical.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Dear accuracy:
I need to work on my Latin but greetings!
:Your citation of Joel 3:3 was interesting. I do not think I have ever seen that verse applied to pedophilia, but it does fit. Surely God and any right-thinking people condemn the exploitation of children, whatever the form it takes.:
Thank you for seeing my point in this case.
:Apart from the pedophilia, a problem that affects humanity irrespective of religion or the lack of religion, the WTS suffers from the lack of welcoming a loyal opposition. Instead, all opposition or criticism is viewed as disloyalty and something to be contained or eradicated. I think such a policy has backfired, with ominous results.:
The WTS probably does have a closed system when it comes to welcoming opposition. But try to look at it from their point of view. As I understand matters, the WTS does invite Witnesses to write letters expressing their concerns about doctrine and practice. They just do not take kindly to dissidents who harm the faith of others in the org. But did not Paul also refuse to countenance Christians questioning his authority? I am not saying that the WT is like Paul. But from their point of view, they are like him.
:For the religiously inclined, only God is right all the time. Others should be willing to accept criticism and correction, without viewing it as disloyalty.:
Amen and amen.
To out:
Having an issue with the WT does not make one "disgruntled." But Bowen seems "disgruntled." Is that better?
found this on the web.
interesting.
hope the link works.
Of course my name is based on my heroine of old. but Hilda and this Hilda have a lot in common, if yoiu know what I means.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Dear D:
:Please, if all of us are part of the HUMAN race, pray tell again Hilda, how does one have "white blood" in one's self? Is this opposed to your "black", "yellow", or "red" blood?:
You need to lighten up, hon. Take care of that anger. The expression, ____ blood means that one's ancestors were "black" "red" (in appearance) or in my case "white."
:Something I came to conclusion early in my life was:
Our physilogical makeup as humans are pretty much all the same. We may differ Height, Weight, and certain appendages may be longer, shorter, bigger, or smaller. But the point is...everything is the same.:
Depending on what you mean by "everything is the same" I support you, hon.
:Thanks to science, we see that DNA in cells cause the variety of hues in pigmentation of our outer shell ("skin"), thus there is no division of RACE. There are different ethnicities, societies, and cultures...but there are NO different forms of HUMANITY.:
I never claimed there was. But race and humanity may be two different things, dear.
:The only direct difference in our HUMANITY is the sexes. One is male. One is Female. (okay, okay, there are that small percentage that are born both...rare? yes. Non-HUMAN. No.) And even with this counterpart system, it does not dictate whether one is superior over the other. Each of the sexes are capable accomplishing what they want to achieve.:
I do not believe that any race is superior to another one.
:So please...explain to us this "WHITE BLOOD" you have in yourself. And please, clarify your heading which is entitled "The Mystical View of RACES (plural)".:
I already explained what I meant by "white blood." Some of my ancestors looked "white." I am a descendant of the white man. That is what I meant. What do you want me to clarify about my heading? I think that one can legitimately speak of "races" without being a racist. Race may or may not be a social construct (a fictive reality). But science cannot provide an answer either way. Some types of phenomena are transrational, dear. They transcend that which is rational and resist positivistic reductions.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Dear 4Christ:
:I am glad you didnt mean that comment you made. Could you explain to me EXACTLY how Bill Bowen is "generalizing"? When did he say all JWs are molesters or protectors? When I see what he is doing ,it seems to me he is trying to protect more kids from being abused.:
Bowen has not said that all jws are molesters. That is right. But his figures of 23,000 jws in the US alone being molesters seems to be a bit high. Mr Bowen, in my opinion, has not verified his results in a scientific way. I am almost certain this is the case. I might also add that he has posted things here implying that jws (in general) approve of pedophilia. That has not been my experience. I just have questions about his motives.
:The problem is not simply that there are molesters in the JW's. It is true you can find those sick individuals in about any organization. The larger issue here is the policies of the WT that enable pedo's to keep on with thier sick and harmful behavior.
Hopefully, the attention put on this issue will cause them to change their policies, seems that may already be happening.:
That is just it, 4. I am not so sure that WT polcies do enable pedos. With all the rhetoric and finger-pointing--it is hard to tell. If the WT policies are wrong, they should be changed. But Bowen has not convinced me that the policies of the WT are to blame. If he was not a disgruntled jw, I would probably give him more credit.
:I am really trying to understand your point of view here. I have read some of your other posts and you are not a JW, right? so i dont know why on Earth you would defend the WT.:
I care about children and would never want to see them harmed in any way. I think that God also detests pedophilia (Joel 3:1-3). I want to make that point clear.
So far I have neither affirmed nor denied my affiliation with the WT. I do not think that people should judge a mystic on the basis of her religion. I stand for God, Christ, truth and justice. I believe in what is fair for everyone concerned. Pedophilia is wrong. But no one should invent stories about any religion just to make that organization look bad in the eyes of others.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Dear 4Christ:
If you read the entirety of my comments, it is clear that I am not a racist and I am not stereotyping whites. I got a little white blood in me myself.
The whole scenario about my friend was a thought experiment. I was trying to show that just as it is not fair to generalize from two or three or even a thousand incidents involving racism to "all white people are biggots" so one should not generalize as Bowen is doing when it comes to molesters among jws.
"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".
galatians 3:28
Robdar:
You are welcome.
English:
Since no maggot can be a biggot and seemingly nothing smaller than a maggot can be a biggot--then a biggot must be bigger than a maggot.
i once had a friend who had racial epithets hurled at her by a white man.
he was not the only one who showed himself to be a racist.
she also went to get a job at a huge prominent corporation in a prosperous country and she did not get the job because she was a certain color.
Dear rek:
You sound like you are telling the truth and so I will not even fight you on that front. Your problem seems to be more a matter of perspective. But I am not trying to put you down. I feel sorry for what happened to your son. This mystic means that. Problems in the org just do not amount to it being a false org.
:I was an elder and I know for a fact we let a father that committed incest be reproved but not removed from the congregation. We never (due to ignorance) went to the police, just like dumb drones we did as the society outlined.:
I am not saying that a pedophile should or should not be immediately DF. But they should be and usually are disciplined by the congregation. Sentencing pedophiles doesn't always work either. Sometimes they come back out of jail and commit the same crimes again. Maybe we can blame the authorities then. They are not perfect either. Only God's kingdom will offer a perfect solution. Daniel 2:44. Governments are now even reconsidering the death penalty.
i once had a friend who had racial epithets hurled at her by a white man.
he was not the only one who showed himself to be a racist.
she also went to get a job at a huge prominent corporation in a prosperous country and she did not get the job because she was a certain color.
Dear hawk:
This is my last post to you on this thread. I can tell that you are not walking through the same cotton that I am. I will therefore let you slide. The ad hominems are getting old.
:Oh brother - why if I had your brains ......:
That is what I am saying. We are not in the same league when it comes to brains. So I will not dialogue with you. It is beneath my dignity.
:It's about control - plain and simple - control the mind and the body of the innocent - abuse them in any way to show how much control you have over some one less strong.:
I guess you also think that rape is ONLY about control too, dear.
:Its sick and that is what you support. You would support the WT way before some little kid gets wacked.:
Wrong, wrong.
:Sick I tell you - sick:
You are the one who needs to take care of your pathology.
