Posts by HildaBingen

62

JW Kids - More Frightened Than Most?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive recently been in contact with a couple of ex-jws that i knew in my childhood.. what has surfaced is the amount of fear that we experienced as young children when we were involved with the witnesses.

i accept that children often do develop irrational fears as part of growing up, but what i am talking about here is a deep-seated fear of being harmed.. many young children that i grew up with in the witness religion were of an unusually nervous disposition.

i recall how when i was first taken to meetings that i found the whole experience somewhat sinister and strange.

HildaBingen

Mr Englishman:

:Ah Hilda, you have totally blown it now. You know what you are? You are a typical Daily Mail reader!:

What is the Daily Mail?

:Yes, Daily Mail readers and Watchtower readers both have the same problem. You believe that societies problems somehow make you in the right! You believe that every act of violence, every wrongdoing, is some sort of grand proof that what you believe is the truth!:

Believe me I wish the world was not as bad as it is. But this world stinks. Don't just ask me. Ask philosophers who have been atheists or agnostics because of world conditions.

:Mistakenly, you think that that the world is degenerating. It's not. All that's occuring is more newpaper reporting and ever larger amounts of media-hype a la Watchtower that focuses on individual incidents in an attempt to prove it's point.:

And you know this for a fact? Get your hand out of the sand, sir. If 9/11 did not wake you up, if all these suicide bombings don't wake you up, if rises and potential rises in cancer do not wake you up, what will?

:Don't waste your time on Moral Panics, http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Students/mtw9403.html, life is too short. Love your family and your friends, warts and all, even their (to you) apostasy,:

I love my family and friends. But you know where I draw the line. Those hating Jehovah--I cannot love.

l'kiddush hashem.

62

JW Kids - More Frightened Than Most?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive recently been in contact with a couple of ex-jws that i knew in my childhood.. what has surfaced is the amount of fear that we experienced as young children when we were involved with the witnesses.

i accept that children often do develop irrational fears as part of growing up, but what i am talking about here is a deep-seated fear of being harmed.. many young children that i grew up with in the witness religion were of an unusually nervous disposition.

i recall how when i was first taken to meetings that i found the whole experience somewhat sinister and strange.

HildaBingen

:1. Sex is for when you're married (hopefully). If you think all good jw kids arent having sex then I'd like to know the name of the planet you live on. Here on Earth, in all 7 of the congregations I went to, the jw kids were getting it on more than the 'worldly' kids. Heck, my worldly friends were virgins and one of my jw friends gave oral sex to a man in his car during a Kingdom Hall building. You're in denial....:

Of course some jw children have sex. But we do not TEACH our children that premarital sex is okay. That is not a fundamental jw tenet. Even Christians in the bible committed sex sins. You would not know that though.

:2.Talk profane is okay? Hmmmm.. we dont allow 'stupid', 'jerk', or anything else rude or offensive. But my jw mother and brother would tell me to F*** off and what a whore I was every other day. Weird, huh?:

Again, jws do not TEACH their children that such language is ok. There may be exceptions, yes. But I am talking about what jws teach and how jws GENERALLY act.

:3. Lewd entertainment is okay? Not! Our kid watches PBS and Nickelodeon, when the tv is allowed to be on. I guess thats much worse than the R and XXX movies I've seen Ministerial Servants go to....:

Where do Jw publications teach kids that R or XXX movies are fine? Why some elders in my circuit even think that you gotta be careful seeing pg-13 movies.

:4. Puffing on cigarettes is okay? We teach our son that they are deadly, cancerous and horrible. I'm sure my jw brothers and sisters that would sneak to the park with me and smoke cigarettes feel much differently... maybe you should ask them.:

Did your parents TEACH them that it was okay to smoke? I sure know that the WT did not teach them this stuff.

:5.The world is not all bad... I teach my son to watch out for predators...you know, the types that prey on innocent, good-hearted people? I teach him to think for himself, to get out of any situation that feels wrong... to be proud of who he is.. that God loves him regardless of his imperfections.:

The world is not all bad. It is only about 90-95% bad. Teach your son that. Do you teach him that the whole world lieth in the grip of the wicked one like 1 John 5:19 says?

:In final, let me tell you this, I was raised in a jw home where there were beatings, screaming, breaking things, drinking, cussing, crying, emotional games, verbal abuse, neglect, and hatred. It was only after I left that I have a good life and live morally.:

I am sorry you had these experiences. But I do not think you yet know the meaning of the word moral.

62

JW Kids - More Frightened Than Most?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive recently been in contact with a couple of ex-jws that i knew in my childhood.. what has surfaced is the amount of fear that we experienced as young children when we were involved with the witnesses.

i accept that children often do develop irrational fears as part of growing up, but what i am talking about here is a deep-seated fear of being harmed.. many young children that i grew up with in the witness religion were of an unusually nervous disposition.

i recall how when i was first taken to meetings that i found the whole experience somewhat sinister and strange.

HildaBingen

Dear ash:

You just wish I would go away, don't you? That is what happens everytime someone comes to this board speaking the truth. People run scared in this place like animals with their heads severed.

Men always hate strong women. You people also like to have one-sided conversations.

62

JW Kids - More Frightened Than Most?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive recently been in contact with a couple of ex-jws that i knew in my childhood.. what has surfaced is the amount of fear that we experienced as young children when we were involved with the witnesses.

i accept that children often do develop irrational fears as part of growing up, but what i am talking about here is a deep-seated fear of being harmed.. many young children that i grew up with in the witness religion were of an unusually nervous disposition.

i recall how when i was first taken to meetings that i found the whole experience somewhat sinister and strange.

HildaBingen

Englishman:

My comments were talking about what parents teach their children. Let us try this again, dear.

:Premarital sex is okay. It is OK, it's the extra-marital sex that is sought out by those who were prevented from enjoying pre-marital sex that causes the problem!:

Besides using flawed reasoning here, the propter hoc fallacy, you miss the point. How can you say that you are interested in protecting children or saving them from bad things like "fear" if you think it is fine for them to have sex before they are married?

:To talk profane is alright. It's only words, no big deal,I find it mildly offensive, others don't. There's more important issues here.:

Profane terms are not just words. Out of the heart's abundance--the mouth speaks. The words emanating from one's mouth serve as an indicator of the condition of one's inward parts. You may think young ones can speak profanely and grow up just fine. I KNOW that profane speech does not uplift or edify or contribute to happy youthhood.

:To watch lewd entertainment is right on If you mean risque films, you watch what you want to, I'll watch what I want to, why does it cause you a problem?:

I am talking about kids, sir. Now do you see the problem?

:Puffing on cigs is not that bad Hey, if you want to narrow your arteries by 30 % every time you smoke, that's your affair.:

What about kids who are not wise enough to realize they are killing themselves by smoking? Are you in favor of letting kids smoke if they want to do so? If so, how are you in favor or protecting children?

:The world is a bad place and children should know it. The world is a fine place, most people are decent and honest, you just focus on the bad 1%!:

Oh the world is just fine. September 11, Israel and Palestine, drug dealing, immoral sex, profane and blasphemous speech, lewd entertainment aimed at kids, crime, Bill Clinton. Oh yeah. The world is just fine, English.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:First of all, I say 'I understand' as an expression. I have been keeping up with this since 1+ years ago when it first started.:

Then you have a lot to learn about this matter, right?

:Second, why don't you apply Proverbs 18:13 and do the same, unless you know what is going on behind those 'closed doors'. Besides, how would Bowen 'repent' and turn around anyway? Wouldn't that be by dropping this whole thing and pretending it never happened?:

I have not come to a firm decision yet regarding this matter. I think that Bowen's method leaves a lot to be desired and that his motives are questionable. But I have not judged him either way yet.

Bowen can repent by ceasing to post messages like the ones he has sent to this board. He can also take down his website. It does not mean he has to stop working for change, as he sees the need for it, however. We love our brother and want to see him serve Yahweh and Christ, getting life eternal.

:How does ignoring a matter help the victims? How does ignoring a matter reestablish their safety and security? It doesn't.:

Did the mystic say the matter should be ignored? I don't think so, hon.

: And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.

Unfortunately, you will NEVER see that, and you and I BOTH know why. Here is a hint, it's called 'divisions' and 'slander'.:

I will not see it like that until there is empirical proof to see it like that.

:It was fun talking to you Greg, but it's time to eat some dinner.

Good Day.:

Have a nice day, that.

We must meet again under less auspicious circumstances, dear.

62

JW Kids - More Frightened Than Most?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

ive recently been in contact with a couple of ex-jws that i knew in my childhood.. what has surfaced is the amount of fear that we experienced as young children when we were involved with the witnesses.

i accept that children often do develop irrational fears as part of growing up, but what i am talking about here is a deep-seated fear of being harmed.. many young children that i grew up with in the witness religion were of an unusually nervous disposition.

i recall how when i was first taken to meetings that i found the whole experience somewhat sinister and strange.

HildaBingen

People here act like they are SOOOOOOooooo concerned about the kids. Yet what do most worlding teach their children? Premarital sex is okay. To talk profane is alright. To watch lewd entertainment is right on. Puffing on cigs is not that bad. What a sick world.

And last, most parents do not discipline their children like they should. The world is a bad place and children should know it.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

: I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.

Well, I don't know about every man being found a liar, but I know of at least one.:

Do you mean Bowen?

: Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?

Oh, sorry I missed that. I don't consider you being engaged in a logomachy though, it's more like bad comedy. But, you are well spoken.:

Thank you, that. You are SOOOooooo sweet for an opposer. I try to avoid bad comedy though I do sometimes slip into logomachy. That is when I am not speaking in amphibolous and mystical tones, dear.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

Dear That:

:Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.:

Your words, "from what I understand" are interesting. They imply that you are going on second-hand information and you don't really know what transpired behind closed doors in Bowen's case. Really, how could you? Please do me a favor. Apply Proverbs 18:13 in your life. Do not reply to a matter before you hear it out, dear. No one wants to get rid of Bowen. He can still repent and turn around, dear. Attitude is everything.

And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.

l'kiddush hashem.

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

:Well, shiver me timbers. This is interesting news. So, it is your contention that the elders should indeed report suspected pedophilia to the police (even in a non-reporting state)? I am just wondering because in your post above, you did say:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bold is mine. Anyway, have you changed your mind, or am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.:

I have not really changed my mind. My comment was intended to show that I might be willing to change my mind if I could see how the suggested action you are prescribing harmonized with God's bible. That is my concern. The will of God. Only God's will can benefit all concerned, inclcuing the children. Ignoring his will harms everyone concerned.

:Than that settles it. Like many other people of your religion, you 'have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do.' So that explains why this issue exists. Naive people like you throw blind-faith at folks who take advantage of the situation right behind your back. Wonderful. Now we see the original problem of the catholic church, and why they were able to keep a lid on things for as long as they have. And in regards to your notion of God making changes and others trying to force his hand, it sounds to me like your God is a bit more on the human side than many others I know of.:

I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.

: Do you likie my logomachy as well, whoever you are? BTW, I never said I was Greg [Stafford?]. Hilda is an ol' lady mystic.

No, I said that you were simply 'Greg'. It is also my current opinion, subject to change at a moment's notice. (New Light, if you will):

Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?

62

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

below is a link to a site by who i believe to be along time jw and an article he has written basically justifying the watchtowers stance on the pedophile issue.

the gist of it i got was that since there is so much more of it in other religions, it isn't all that bad within the jws.

what a pity they won't open their eyes;.

HildaBingen

: Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse.

Impossible. Since the elders probably won't talk about it, and since anyone who knew about it was probably pressured into silence, very few people who would be considered as credible by you (i.e. non-apostates) would even be aware of the situation:

Just like I thought. Just a bunch of assertions with nary a bit of evidence to back it up.

: It might have happened in rare cases. But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted.

How? By silencing the victim and 'reproving' the perpatrator? What did you do, take the microphone away. Oh man, that's terrible!:

Read what I wrote again. I was talking about if a victim was DF, the wrong being righted. Do you get it now?

: If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.

No kidding. You can't kick him out for child advocacy, it would be a suicidal way of wording things. You are just worring about him possibly 'causing divisions', you obviously don't give a damn about why he could be 'causing divisions'. That would be acknowledging what is obvious to 60% of humanity.:

Anyone who has read Bowen website or posts here knows why he MIGHT be kicked out. That is obvious to any sane or rational or truly mystical person.

l'kiddush hashem.