Posts by hooberus

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

hooberus

Below is an interesting quote from a Watchtower publication (Insight from the Scriptures vol. 2 . 1019).

“Personification does not prove personality. It is true that Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper” and spoke of such helper as ‘teaching,’ ‘bearing witness,’ ‘giving evidence,’ ‘guiding,’ ‘speaking,’ ‘hearing,’ and ‘receiving.’ In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the masculine personal pronoun to that “helper” (paraclete). (Compare Joh 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:7-15.) However, it is not unusual in the Scriptures for something that is not actually a person to be personalized or personified. Wisdom is personified in the book of Proverbs (1:20-33;8:1-36); and feminine pronominal forms are used of it in the original Hebrew, as also in many English translations. (KJ, RS, JP, AT)”

So when attacking the personhood of the Spirit, they appeal to wisdom in proverbs “not” being actually a person.

Also, they admit that feminine forms are used in the original Hebrew.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

hooberus

Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

Proverbs 9:1-3 KJV

Folly is personified later on in Chapter 9 as a foolish woman that has her own house too.

13 A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing.

14 For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city,

15 To call passengers who go right on their ways:

Proverbs 9:13-15 KJV

So you have wisdom in her house (9:1) and a foolish woman in her house (9:14).

There is no need to interpret either of these passages as referring to any actual persons.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

hooberus

20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Proverbs 1:20-22 KJV

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Proverbs 8:1-3 KJV

Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.

3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,

Proverbs 9:1-3 KJV

Wisdom is an attribute of God that is personified as a woman in Proverbs. Its gender is feminine.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

hooberus

T

31

How do Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 43:10 with John 1:1

by Vanderhoven7 in

something does not compute.

you are my witnesses,”declares jehovah, yes, my servant whom i have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me and understand that i am the same one.before me no god was formed, and after me there has been none.

isaiah 43:10. in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god.

hooberus

@hooberus

you have left one thing out, Jesus was referred to as "The last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45) - was Adam also Divine?

No, Adam was not also God.

Jesus being “the last Adam” is parallel with him being “the second man” (in verse 47.)

This does not exclude him from also being God, nor does it logically require that if he is God (as well as man) that Adam must also have been God.

“The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven.” 1 Corinthians 15:47

31

How do Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 43:10 with John 1:1

by Vanderhoven7 in

something does not compute.

you are my witnesses,”declares jehovah, yes, my servant whom i have chosen, so that you may know and have faith in me and understand that i am the same one.before me no god was formed, and after me there has been none.

isaiah 43:10. in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god.

hooberus

What's the point of Paul calling attention of the Colossians to the fact that Christ is seated at the right hand of God, if he was the Ultimate Creator, the Almighty God?

Jesus being seated on the right hand of God is a fulfillment of the messianic prophecy of a man at the right hand of God.

“Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.” Psalm 80:17

It does not deny his deity, but actually proves that he is the messiah and still a man. Jesus is both divine and human. Verses showing that he is a man do not disprove that he is also divine.

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” John 1:3

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

hooberus

T

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

hooberus

“Complex” in the context of a camera or eye is referring to a functional system composed of component parts (like a car transmission).

Where in the design argument is it required that a designer God must himself also be to be composed of parts?

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

hooberus

And if you do have a satisfactory answer please reply ?

smiddy3

Is there anything in the following statement that requires a designer God to have their own designer?

”An intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of biological life from non-life.”

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

hooberus

From the bottom post on page 4.

The act of creation as defined in creation science is not falsifiable because no testable bounds can be imposed on the creator. In creation science, the creator is defined as limitless, with the capacity to create (or not), through fiat alone, infinite universes, not just one, and endow each one with its own unique, unimaginable and incomparable character. It is impossible to disprove a claim when that claim as defined encompasses every conceivable contingency.

How does a person test ‘natural selection’? ReMine documents how natural selection is composed of numerous mechanisms operating discordantly over a complex “fitness terrain”. Making the theory untestable.

Also countless (trillions) of universes are now another part of the evolutionary theory smorgasbord. These are conjured up to try to provide a rescue device for mathematical probabilities that point to the universe or origin of life being designed. Other universes aren’t testable, so it’s not a scientific explanation according to evolutionists criteria thst they try to apply to creation.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/sciences-alternative-to-an-intelligent-creator-the-multiverse-theory