Posts by hooberus

7

Q & A on Jesus and God. The real TRUTH.

by apostate man in

23. if jesus is the first and the last, why did god say in isaiah 44:6 that he was the first and the last?

matthew 1:20 says that the holy ghost was the father, while romans 15:6, ii corinthians 11:31, and ephesians 1:3 say that god was the father.

51. does the bible say that jesus was god with us?

hooberus

I know that "modalists" and "Jesus Only" people disagree with people who believe in the Trinity doctrine. But does this give them the right to misrepresent what trinitarians believe? The watchtower has for years misrepresented the beliefs of trinitarians as being a "polytheistic" belief in "three Gods" or "three God's in one person."

Modalists also do the same.

1. The Trinity doctrine does NOT teach "polytheism" or the belief in more than one God. So verses such as Psalm 83:18 do not "disprove" the Trinity.

2. The Trinity doctrine does NOT teach that God was talking to another "God" when He said "let us make man in our image" in Genesis 1:26.

3. The Trinity doctrine does NOT teach that more than one God was active in creation. So verses such as Isaiah 44:24 do not "disprove" the Trinity.

4. The Trinity doctrine teaches that Jesus Christ is YHWH/Jehovah. So quoting a dozen verses proving that Jesus Christ is YHWH does not "disprove" the Trinity doctrine.

Modalists and "Jesus Only" people are guilty of using "straw man" agruments, rather than true comparisons of beliefs.

43

Was Noah's Flood Local?

by JosephAlward in

achristian believes those who think the bible teaches that the flood was global look foolish.

he wrote, .

i encourage all christians to investigate the possibility that the bible does not really teach that the whole earth was flooded at the time of noah.

hooberus

If we say that the account of Noah and the flood is fictional, then since Jesus Christ is said to be decended from one of Noah's sons, wouldn't this be saying that Jesus Christ was also fictional?

43

Was Noah's Flood Local?

by JosephAlward in

achristian believes those who think the bible teaches that the flood was global look foolish.

he wrote, .

i encourage all christians to investigate the possibility that the bible does not really teach that the whole earth was flooded at the time of noah.

hooberus

Joseph wrote:

"A requirement for membership in the CRS is that members must pledge that they agree that the Bible stories are literally true, and that they will work to find evidence which supports the literal truth of the creation and flood stories. Rather than use the scientific approach of collecting evidence, and only then reaching a conclusion, these folks first reach a conclusion (the Bible stories are literally true), and then go looking for "facts" which they think support this view. These are hardly objective "scientists"; they are hard-core, die-rather-than-admit-Bible-error fundamentalists."

Many of the members of the CRS are former evolutionists, who were trained in the evolutionary viewpoint of historical geology. After examining both interpretations of the evidence they changed their viewpoint. Rather than dismissing their evdence as worthless because they are "fundamentalists", we should evamine the scientific data from the perspective of both views.

43

Was Noah's Flood Local?

by JosephAlward in

achristian believes those who think the bible teaches that the flood was global look foolish.

he wrote, .

i encourage all christians to investigate the possibility that the bible does not really teach that the whole earth was flooded at the time of noah.

hooberus

There would have been no reason for an ark to built in the first place if God was only going to cause a local flood. God simply would have had Noah and the animals migrate out of the area as He did with Lot and his family out of Sodom.

God had Noah build the ark because the flood was indeed global requiring an ark to save mankind and the animals so that the earth could be repopulated. That is why male and female pares of each animal were taken.

The Creation Research Society has over 1,000 members ALL with advanced degrees in science. They are an excellent source for information on the scientific evidence of a recent global flood. They have an excellent internet site.

15

After JWs--NOW WHAT???

by Smoldering Wick in

ok, it's been four years for me since i left the jws.

i have been so busy trying to recover from the blow of leaving and losing friends, religion, a social group etc., that i haven't considered (too much) about what's next.

i mean, i've tried to be open minded and listen to other people's beliefs hoping that somewhere/sometime/something would click.

hooberus

a warning: some of the groups you are looking at "Unity, Science of Mind, etc." claim to be Christian, However in their writings they deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22; 1 John 4:2,3; 2 John 7-10). any group or religion that has the spirit of antichrist scares me.

15

After JWs--NOW WHAT???

by Smoldering Wick in

ok, it's been four years for me since i left the jws.

i have been so busy trying to recover from the blow of leaving and losing friends, religion, a social group etc., that i haven't considered (too much) about what's next.

i mean, i've tried to be open minded and listen to other people's beliefs hoping that somewhere/sometime/something would click.

hooberus

Re: After JWs--NOW WHAT??? Mar 22, 2002 21:47

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quote:
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Have you ever thought about a personal relationship with Jesus? You can pray to Jesus --hooberus
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"hoob...I appreciate your comments. Yes, I have thought about Jesus. But, praying to him would require that I believed He is God. I investigated this...got to the point where I could 'prove' Jesus was God AND Jesus wasn't God from the same Bible!"

I don't mean to be too "doctrinal" on who Jesus Christ is, but I think that some of your frustration about what the Bible teaches on Christ has to do with the watchtower's denial of the continuing manhood of Christ. The Bible says that it was a "man" (Acts 17:31) that God raised from the dead. A "man" (psalm 80:17, Hebrews 10:12) who is seated at God's right hand. The mediator is a "man" (1 Timothy 2:5). The scriptures that seem to indicate that Jesus is less than, or not God have to do with his manhood. Traditional Christianity holds that Jesus is BOTH God and "man" together. This is why Jesus as a "man" prayed to the Father (Luke 23:46) and why we as "men" pray to Jesus (because He also is God) Like stephen prayed (Acts 7:59). It really helps to read and compare Luke 23:46 with Acts 7:59.

15

After JWs--NOW WHAT???

by Smoldering Wick in

ok, it's been four years for me since i left the jws.

i have been so busy trying to recover from the blow of leaving and losing friends, religion, a social group etc., that i haven't considered (too much) about what's next.

i mean, i've tried to be open minded and listen to other people's beliefs hoping that somewhere/sometime/something would click.

hooberus

"I thought wow, if only I'd get a visit from a big bright light to my living room where a commanding voice would tell me "THIS IS THE WAY!" and that would be it. um...it hasn't happened yet"

Jesus said that He was the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Have you ever thought about a personal relationship with Jesus? I'm not talking about joining an organization, but a real relationship.(1 Timothy 2:5). You can pray to Jesus (Acts 7:59, 1 Corinthians 1:2). I went to church for years and never had this relationship, until when I was 22, I believed that Jesus Christ died for me and that his blood washed away my own sins. Find a good translation of the Bible like the King James Version and read the Gospel of John. I will pray for you that you find what you are seeking.

12

Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave A "Clas...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i am shortly to have a discussion with a jw elder regarding the society's interpretation of the "faithful and discreet slave" i have already got some points i would like to share, but here i am asking for your collective assistance in refuting logically and scripturally the watchtower argument regarding the "slave class".. one comment that was raised was if we are told to get out of false religion (babylon the great) where are we to go to?.

please post serious and well reasoned replies if possible.

your brother in christ.

hooberus

Where then can the witnesses go to? Jesus. In John chapter 6:68 Jesus's disciples didn't say "where" can we go to but "whom" shall we go to. The passage is talking about staying with Jesus for eternal life, not an "organization"

12

Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave A "Clas...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i am shortly to have a discussion with a jw elder regarding the society's interpretation of the "faithful and discreet slave" i have already got some points i would like to share, but here i am asking for your collective assistance in refuting logically and scripturally the watchtower argument regarding the "slave class".. one comment that was raised was if we are told to get out of false religion (babylon the great) where are we to go to?.

please post serious and well reasoned replies if possible.

your brother in christ.

hooberus

According to the official watchtower interpretation of the parable of the faithful and discreet slave "On his return in Kingdom power in the year 1914, did Christ find a faithful and discreet slave class providing spiritual food, or information? - yes . . . " You can live forever in paradise earth 1982,1989 p. 193. So the watchtower claims that Jesus found a slave CLASS dispensing food in 1914. This is a bold lie about their own history.

1. Early on Russell taught that the slave was a class, but in 1896 he got "new light" that the slave was an individual. He continued teaching that the slave was an individual for the rest of his life. Russell died in 1916. Russell was a one man ruler and directed the society without regards to anyone else, so there was no CLASS dispensing food.

2. After Russells death the watchtower continued to teach that the slave was an individual until 1927 when they returned to the "old light" of a slave class.

3. Today's watchtower leaders have rewritten their own history and claim that there was a CLASS all along and ESPECIALLY in 1914. If you like I can post watchtower quotes proving everything above or you may already be in possession of them.

I think the witnesses you present this information to could attack the source of your quotes or you personally, So try to be as kind and loving as possible. Be sure to kindly tell them that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, not a organizaion.

Another tactic may be to claim that they got "new light" on the identity of the slave. There are two problems with this.

1. The idea that the slave is an individual was the "new light" replacing the previous "old light" of a salve CLASS. The watchtower has flipped flopped and returned to the "old light" of a slave class.

2. Even if it was acceptable for them to "flip flopp" on the identity of the slave, it does not give them the right to "re-write" and lie about there being a slave CLASS in 1914. This would be like the US presidency in which prior to 1992 we had a "Bush" presidency, then in 1992 we citizens got "new light" and had a "Clinton" presidency, then in the year 2000 we returned to the "old light" of a "Bush" presidency. However if we "rewrote" our history books and claimed that we had a "Bush" presidency all along and ESPECIALLY in the year 1995 was there a "Bush" presidency we would be LYING about our own history.

This lying about their own history proves that the modern day leaders of the watchtower are not members of the 144,000 of the book of Revelation. "And in their mouth was found no lie . . ." Revelaton 14:5 ASV

55

If Russell Were Alive Today He'd Be DF'd For

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

i was just thinking that if charles taze russell were alive today he wouldn't even recognize the religion he started.

in fact, many of the things he did are now disfellowshippable offenses.

for instance, he had a christmas tree in the bethel home and he wore a beard.

hooberus

RR,

Isn't it the position of "Bible Student" groups that Russell was "that servant"?

Do you personally believe that he was "that servant"?