Posts by Slappy

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

Slappy

That is correct and there is no need to even argue this point. Why? Because John explained how our Lord took the remark and why it was recorded just three verses later when he said: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. My God is shown to be an appropriate way to address the Messiah or Christ as John stated as this is well within the proper use of this word. Nowhere does John say that the Supreme Being was being identified by Thomas when he said it.

Joseph

This is a prime example of having a preconceived notion and then viewing Scripture through that prejudiced "lens". Is taking Scripture "as is" such a novel idea anymore? That words may actually mean what they say?!

So if that's your argument, then why didn't Paul and Barnabas take the notion that they were God in the same manner as you say Jesus did here? And where in the whole of Scripture do you get that "My God" is an appropriate way to address the Messiah and still justify denying His Deity?!

Why does "doublespeak" come to mind...?

bk

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

Slappy

K, now this is just getting annoying...why won't it post everything???

8Now at Lystra there was a man sitting who could not use his feet. He was crippled from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul speaking. And Paul, looking intently at him and seeing that he had faith to be made well, 10 said in a loud voice, "Stand upright on your feet." And he sprang up and began walking. 11 And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!" 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 15 "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. 16 In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness."

That is how Paul and Barnabas responded to being equated with God (Acts 14).

20 Now Herod was angry with the people of Tyre and Sidon, and they came to him with one accord, and having persuaded Blastus, the king’s chamberlain, they asked for peace, because their country depended on the king’s country for food. 21 On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and delivered an oration to them. 22 And the people were shouting, "The voice of a god, and not of a man!" 23 Immediately an angel of the Lord struck him down, because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last.

And that is what happened to a man who did not correct the perception that he was God (Acts 12).

With careful attention to John 20:29 and Acts 14:15, why was there such a disparity in the responses?

I have not read into anything for there is nothing to "read into". All I did was give two portions from Scripture (in their context). There is no perspective or indoctrination of mine that can be attacked. I've only given the Bible. God's Word has stood on its own for the last 2,000 years and will continue to do so, even in the face of all who attempt to exterminate, twist, or manipulate it. Kind of

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

Slappy

Not sure why my first post was incomplete, but here it is again, and hopefully in its entirety.

24Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

That is how Jesus responded to being equated with God (John 20).

8Now at Lystra there was a man sitting who could not use his feet. He was crippled from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul speaking. And Paul, looking intently at him and seeing that he had faith to be made well, 10 said in a loud voice, "Stand upright on your feet." And he sprang up and began walking. 11 And when the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!" 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds. 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out, 15 "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. 16 In past generations he allowed all the nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Yet he did not leave himself without witness, for he did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful season

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

Slappy

32

The All Knowing Creator?

by Number1Anarchist in

why would a creator write a book knowing in the future it would splinter into absolute madness?.

judeism?.

muslim?.

Slappy

What I've been saying is that you are the only one that can determine whether the Bible is God's Word or not. And the only way to do so is to let the Bible speak for itself (not myself or others). Get into it, read it, study it, dwell on it, things will be made clear if you honestly seek. I could give you my opinion on your question, but what would be the point? It's just one among a million and only an opinion at that.

Now you're telling me what I believe and why I believe? Just because I believe certain things that are also held by an organization, that makes me subject to an organization and its beliefs? How so? Should I reject any idea that is held by an organization then? If that were the case, what would I believe in? (And I no longer have reference to things solely religious.)

Everything I hold, and everything I believe has come from my own, personal, study of the Bible. Sure, I may have been brought up to believe that the Bible is God's Word and the various doctrines that went with such an upbringing, but after seeing how the organization (not JW) I grew up in was no different from any other, I completely rejected any and all such assocation with such and returned solely to the Bible and prayed that God would guide me to what He wants me to learn. I have no regrets about any of it.

slappy

32

The All Knowing Creator?

by Number1Anarchist in

why would a creator write a book knowing in the future it would splinter into absolute madness?.

judeism?.

muslim?.

Slappy

Ok, for some more clarifying. I'm not saying I'm against what you're doing, in fact I'm very much for it. You are coming to individuals and getting a wide variety of ideas, which is great. That is very much different from an organization that holds to one set of beliefs and doctrines and is unwilling to look at anything outside those set beliefs. That is what I was commenting on. That is where people need to take the initiative and discover things for themselves and not just take some organization's ideas for their own. However, it is still our responsibility to search things for ourselves and reach our own conclusions.

Reading the Bible is great and quite necessary in learning of Him. However, that's only a part. There is so much more to said relationship than just reading what He has given us.

And no, I don't understand all of the Bible and what is contained therein. And I know I never will understand all of it. But that's what I find so intriguing about it. I learn something new every time I study and think on Him. He's God. If we understood all of who He is, He wouldn't be God.

John 6:60-66 gives one reason for things being difficult. I admit that at first blush, most of the Bible is difficult to understand, especially for those with little or no education. However, anyone with a true desire to know God will make the effort to learn all they can of Him, just as somebody with an interest in golf will learn and practice all they can in order to get better at it. And just as one will never be able to achieve all they can in golf, neither can one understand all that is in the Bible. However, that doesn't mean that person will stop; on the contrary, they will try harder and put more effort into said passion.

slappy

32

The All Knowing Creator?

by Number1Anarchist in

why would a creator write a book knowing in the future it would splinter into absolute madness?.

judeism?.

muslim?.

Slappy

Number1Anarchist:

That's just it. What is God's will? I can't tell you what that is. Neither can anybody else. God would have something different from each of us. However, as LouBelle said, it is up to us to search for it ourselves. The 'bigger nuts' is in relation to taking the initiative for oneself to determine what God would have of you and not looking to some organization's interpretations and taking the interpretations that you like for your own. (Now I'm not in any way saying that you are doing so...it's more just in general to what a large portion of the 'religious' population has done.)

The conclusion I've come to at the moment is that I am to live an upright life to honor Him and to defend the gospel of Jesus. Is that all God would have of me? I highly doubt it. The more I read and study the Bible the more I learn of His will. It's not like it's something I can come across with a simple skimming of the Bible. It takes prayerful consideration and an honest desire to know more of Him.

It takes faith, there is no question about that, for if I were to look at it with the perspective that it was written by a bunch of men who were not led/inspired by God to do so, there is no way I would be spending as much time as I have in study. Thankfully, I do not have said perception, and am able to truly and fully enjoy what is contained within His Word.

slappy

32

The All Knowing Creator?

by Number1Anarchist in

why would a creator write a book knowing in the future it would splinter into absolute madness?.

judeism?.

muslim?.

Slappy

The bible in itself is not a bad book - it boils down to mans' interpretation of it.
If I were god would I leave such a book behind - sure. If you want to find me, make a bloody effort why don't you. you humans want to be spoon fed even after you leave babyhood behind. Grow a pair and walk your path set out before you. Take responsibilty for your actions and stop blaming me or everyone else around you.

Well put. Jesus voiced a similar idea in relation to why he spoke in parables (sry, don't know the portion off the top of my head).

Furthermore, it really is only something we can honestly conclude on our own. Relying on any organization to tell us what the Bible says or doesn't say is relying on man. Don't know about others, but I have a very very hard time putting any sort of faith in man, myself included. As such I'm always refreshing myself on what is laid out in the Bible, always looking for new insight, and always looking to stay true to His will for me.

slappy

3

For Mormons

by mouthy in

grace.

thanks.. that's a really good site..

Slappy

I found it interesting. I'm thinking that maybe ole' Reniaa could go there are read up on the definition of Christian....not that it'd do much good.

7

How do you define "miracle"? Have you ever witnessed one?

by gaiagirl in

i define "miracle" as an event which occurs in opposition or defiance of natural laws.

i have never observed any occurance of any event taking place not in accord with natural laws.

Slappy

We consider something to be a miracle when we do not understand how it occurs and hence feel it is impossible. However, once it occurs means it is possible so it is no longer a miracle.
For example, almost everything that we take for granted now would have been considered a miracle in Jesus day. Pain killers, medicine for mental illness, electricity, aeroplanes, cars, music. cameras, telephone, google earth, TV etc etc etc. Just because a person does not understand how it works or believe it is possible does not make it impossible and hence a miracle.
Of course, for the superstitious, when something outside the realms of our comprehension does happen, it is called a miracle and attributed to the hand of God.

My friend was driving 70+ mph, drove off the road, overcorrected, and ending up rolling his truck 3 times. He was thrown through the windshield and landed in the only patch of snow around. He sustained nothing but superficial wounds.

Would this fit the definition of a miracle? Oh, wait, it happened, so it cannot be a miracle.

So what do the 'non-superstitious' term such an occurance? Blind-chance? Incredible luck? Anything but a miracle...because they are more intelligent and know better.

slappy