i urge any lurkers, or newbies, or doubter here to read...and study the proclaimers book....and read many old articles in the watchtower.
anybody who can explian to me how we could be sooooo wrong about soooo many things...........you have a willing ear here.
gods holy spirit would not allow for teaching falsehoods....period!
Could you? It says that specifically huh? Also, can you point to one instance to where no bad came of a man having more than one wife? I can't.
Look at what became of Abraham having more than one wife, or Isaac, or David, or Solomon. In each instance, some bad came about as a result.
quoted from reasoning from the scriptures, pg.
239 in the english edition:.
"to what do all these events of 'the last days' point?.
Wouldn't it help if you just defined what was meant by generation? As in, what the author at the time meant by "generation"? Generation, according to Strong's, carries the sense of "race". As in, this race of people (the Jews) will not pass away till these things come. Always go back to the beginning of something to find out that truth, not what man has changed it to be. We are very fallible creatures so why would be ever look to man for guidance?
I still don't understand the JW fascination with the end times and all that. The Bible clearly states that the only one that knows when such will occur is God Himself. So why waste time trying to figure out such things that are of no use to anybody and can't be figured out anyway?
I know that Jesus said to watch and be ready, and to look for that day, but that's more or less an idiom for be ready (as in believe in Christ). It's not meant to be taken literaly, if we were to focus on looking, then our focus wouldn't be on Christ, and that isn't what the Bible says. Yet another splendid JW contradiction!
i urge any lurkers, or newbies, or doubter here to read...and study the proclaimers book....and read many old articles in the watchtower.
anybody who can explian to me how we could be sooooo wrong about soooo many things...........you have a willing ear here.
gods holy spirit would not allow for teaching falsehoods....period!
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: 2 John 5-10
As for what the "doctrine of Christ" is, most if not all of 1 John covers that. Chapter 5 is very explicit, I'm still curious as to how the JW religion got around this...other than the NWT that is.
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5: 1-13
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Matt. 10:16
So then, how do we become wise as serpents?
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Luke 11: 9-10
IMO, things couldn't be spelled out any clearer. Whenever man tries to complicate and massage God's Word to fit man's ideas or standards, it should tell us to stay the Hell away...else Hell could be a possibility.
if you stare at someone long enough, eventually you'll get what you want.
don't go out without id.
be direct with people; let them know exactly how you feel by piddling on .
No matter what disobedient things you do out of sight of your master, he/she always finds out.
Being well-trained and obedient keeps you safe.
Making my master happy makes me happy, the reward is only a bonus.
Being in the doghouse isn't all that bad...until you spend one night in the house. ;-p
in 1 cor.
2:9 paul states: "just as it is written: 'eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that god has prepared for those who love him".
(nwt).
Just a thought, but could Paul have been paraphrasing, just in more flowery terminology in order to get his point across? As soon as I read the verse in question, Ecclesiastes 3:11 popped into my head.
He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
Also, it's my belief that for those inspired to write what they did, if they had no qualms of including quotes and references from sources not included in the Bible, then who are we to say yea or nay? It could be that those sources from which they quoted weren't necessary to convey the idea that God wanted to get across to us, and as a result were not added.
Again, just a thought, no hard evidence to support it.
i have posted some thoughts on this on earlier threads, but the pesky jws have approached my wife about a bible study again, but my wife has let them know that this time she wants to learn how to read the bible and then after she is able to do that, she may consider some of the other books.
i have a couple of concerns about this, firstly, from what i know, the jws consider reading thier literature on a par with reading the bible, in fact i am pretty sure that they will try to lead her back to the bible teach book and let her know that she is in essence getting the same 'food' this way as she would another way.. secondly, if she decides to study the bible, the questions from readers that has recently come out all but prohibiting independent bible study will most likely come into play.
witnessgirl provided a good course on this, let my wife know that we are going to read the bible, not study, which could be a loophole (but i doubt if she asks a jw about that they would see a difference, but my stubborn wife may), but i think my wife would say she wants to study, not read....... a pesky jw provided her with her copy of the insight books and she also has the reasoning book, but i want her to actually feel she can read the bible and take from it what the literature presents in itself, not the slant that any organization or person wants her to take from it, even though if she reads the nwt version (or really any version for that matter) there is already a man provided slant.
You do have one point right, that being that there is a difference (big difference IMO) between reading and studying the Bible. However, that being said, one has to read through the Bible to gain a basic understanding of the image of God portrayed. Once one has that understanding, then one can truly study the Bible. Without knowing and understanding God, it is difficult to keep many things in context. It is this disregard for the character of God that has led many people to mis-interpret, either willfully or ignorantly, the message contained within His Word.
One key that is imperative to keep in mind (again, IMO) is that love (care for others) should guide our actions and therefore our perception when we study God's Word. Many organized religions are fond of legalism guiding lives, with those in power guiding the legal boundaries.
Also, a desire for truth, and not just some "religious" bits and pieces that make us look and feel that we have enough "religion" in our life to satisfy that particular facet of our lives, is needed. I say this because there are portions in the Bible that will condemn actions that you have done, still do, or have yet to do. Many people don't adjust very well to this condemnation of who they are and either look to "edit" what the Bible says so they feel more comfortable with who they are or just disregard the Bible as baseless and therefore is not worthy of their time. Therefore, one's motive for reading and studying the Bible are key to gaining understanding.
There are many translations out there that might make studying the Bible easier, and they should be OK to use, as long as they're not there to support one "religious" view over another (aka. NWT, Book of Mormon, etc...). However, a KJV with Strong's works very well for understanding what was actually meant in the original Greek or Hebrew.
Oh, almost missed the scripture support part. Can't recall any such verse off the top of my head, but there are constant references to such use in the apostles letters to the various churches and that we should stay away from those "false teachers". Also, there is a portion in Deuteronomy somewhere where God states clearly that man is not to add to or subtract from His Word (there is at least one other portion also that says the same thing, but I can't recall the location).
Hope this helps a little.
i posed the question to a pioneer who had been giving me bible studies.
my question was quite simple: "in john 3:16, doesn't it say that whosoever believeth in him will have eternal life?
my understanding of this scripture is that eternal life is given to all who believe in christ and believe he died to save sinners.
To add on to Honesty's post...which would give any JW a bad case of indigestion. Ask the "pioneer" those questions in a sincere (not challenging) tone. Also, see if she'll agree that just the two of you will search for the answers, and ask that she not ask others for help. Tell her you want to know what the Bible says about such things, not what others say what the Bible says. This way, you'll gain a greater understanding and could quite possibly guide the "pioneer" through the darkness.
Just a suggestion.
i posed the question to a pioneer who had been giving me bible studies.
my question was quite simple: "in john 3:16, doesn't it say that whosoever believeth in him will have eternal life?
my understanding of this scripture is that eternal life is given to all who believe in christ and believe he died to save sinners.
In my experience with the JW door-to-door salesmen/women, they have set verses that they use to support their assertions. However, when you read those same verses in their true context, you'll see that how the JWs applied them are rarely right. Granted, it's not easy to determine the exact context, but if you study, things will make more sense as time passes. An understanding of the Bible as a whole is needed to truly determine what an individual portion is saying. Sorta like without knowing what mathematics is, can you understand 2+2=4?
What has been the biggest help to me is getting a NKJV Study Bible. Not that I have problem with other translations, it's just that I'm wary when there is a certain translation that is pushed by a particular "religion". Also, with a study bible, certain explanations about the history at that time, or the significance of a particular tradition can greatly increase one's understanding of what is being said. This will change what seems to be said to what was actually meant.
Also, Bible study with others who want to discover the truth is great. However, Bible study with someone who thinks they already have the truth, and the only reason they are doing so is to indoctrinate one into a certain "religion"...not so good. Motive is everything.
Also, a lot of poeple (JWs, Mormons, and others) argue that works are needed for salvation because they: 1) either truly don't understand the nature of a gift (God gave), 2) have been manipulated by those in the regions of power because without the "works" clause, the religion would crumble and power would disappear, 3) several other reasons of which I'm not aware of.
And I second what has already been said. Good points all around, especially LZ's comment about the Bible only. Same thing applies to Mormons, have a Bible study (without the horse thief's additions) and they have nothing to stand on (not like their legs have been cut off...more like they're standing on their head ).
Study the first two letters by John. I believe that should answer any questions you have concerning works/faith and will also give you an understanding of what truly characterizes a false prophet (which the JWs I've talked to can't seem to get enough of mentioning).
Hope what everybody as said will help you and that you will be guided by truth (from the Bible, not by what man has twisted it to say).
i have recently read in the news that an attack on iran is planned sometime after the olympics in beijing.
here's a bit of background to it:.
when irans fledgling democracy was overthrown with support of cia the shah of iran was giving israel free oil thru a pipeline that still runs thru saudi arabia to a refinery in the israeli city of haifa.
LoL Outlaw. That's been one of the more entertaining posts I've come across.
Anyway, I'm curious, does it really matter whether or not we know when it's coming? Other than for pure academic reasons. Don't see how it's going to do any good. If it is to happen in our lifetime, who's to care. Will you be able to stop it...will you want to? In one way or another things have been deteriorating with the passage of time (entropy). I, for one, am tired of all the crap that makes the news anymore; hell, I'm tired of the news itself.
As for "Armageddon" I can't really offer anything constructive. I haven't spent much time studying apocalyptic material (Revelation, Daniel, etc...) because I have yet to see how knowledge of that sort is able to help others. "...we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth." 1 Corinthians 8:1
Whenever I've seen people use an apocalyptical approach to coerce (think that word sums it up nicely) others to come to God, it ends badly. People view it as a threat of sorts, and that rubs them all sorts of wrong ways. I know how I respond to threats...I immediately associate that person with being pathetic and not worth my time.
Anyway, "Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matthew 24:44 So I'd say that if you think it's going to happen at a particular time, then it most likely isn't.
i have had a continuing saga of a 25 year friendship, gone terribly wrong.
bitterness is very high, on both of our parts.
every-time i think things have calmed down, and we are dead to each other, something else is said on her part.
Maybe I should clarify on what I meant by meditation. There is what most people think of when they hear the word, that being emptying your mind of all thoughts (or finding a "happy" place) and achieving a state of relaxation/calm/tranquility. That is not what I meant. Cognizant dissident mentioned something along the lines of thinking (aka. meditating) about oneself and one's feelings. This is more along the lines of what I had reference to. The former type is all good and well, but the calmness it bestows upon one is only temporary and then one has to meditate yet again to achieve that state...I guess there is too much similarity between a buzz (whether from drugs, weed, or alcohol) and that state to make me truly comfortable. I've seen the effect of dependency in my friends' lives, and I fear and hate what it is capable of doing to a life. Not that I'm saying they are one and the same, just that they are eerily similar.
I am fond of introspective meditation; dwelling on one's own state, feelings, why one thinks how one does, etc... This, IMO, can have a very positive effect on our lives by giving us a greater understanding of who one truly is. Peace is then only a step behind, walking hand in hand with Confidence.
As for who I am, I'm nobody. Just one who has seen the detrimental effects that organized "religion" has had on countless lives and that none of those "religions" gives a true representation of God and His Word. It pains me to see others soured so completely that the Bible can no more be true than Santa. I honestly believe that, depending on one's persepective, different people can draw different conclusions from the same portions in the Bible. Not opposing conclusions mind you, just that some portions can be applied in different ways to one's life depending on the experiences one has undergone (experiences, not what one wants the Bible to say). For a body/group of people to say that the Bible says this, and only this, that sends off alarms in my head. That doesn't agree with the Bible (which is why I'm so fond of Romans 14). We are only human, who are we to say what is what with 100% certainty?
I don't look to tell people what is what, but I do attempt to give them a different perspective and/or the motivation to honestly look for an answer themselves. For others can tell one how things are, but unless one searches and finds those things out for oneself, can one truly hold to them? I think not. The most difficult thing to do is to disregard whatever one currently holds to be true and make an honest and truthful attempt to understand another's point of view. Even if one ends up holding to one's original beliefs, one will have gained an understanding of an opposing belief and will have gained the respect of those that hold to the opposition, for they will have seen that one gained an understanding of their perspective and didn't brush it off as stupidity. When people have respect of another's beliefs, then people can truly engage in an argumentative discussion for the edification of all.
If you want to know more (about me) then I can start a new topic. However, I don't want people judging what I say based on the type of person they think I am. Whether it makes them disregard what I say or embrace what I say...it doesn't matter. The message is always greater than the messenger, and to judge the message based on the messenger shows a shallowness that is detrimental in its limitations. I would dare to extend that to Jesus Himself...except that He is the message, so I am spared what many religions would view as blasphemy/heresy.
Btw, I've completely overlooked your original question: What happened?
Try 1 Corinthians 10:13 "...will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."
