Posts by Slappy

38

Paul and Jesus

by Slappy in

maybe it's just me, but lately it seems like there is a trend (well, moreso than usual in any case) of saying that paul is somehow of a different mind than jesus and that the teachings of the two contradict each other.

while i can see where having a jw background can easily bring this type of thinking around, most especially since they extol the teachings of paul and completely ignore christ, most of you are no longer under the power of the watchtower...er, you aren't are you?

and as such, you should be free of most, if not all, of the brainwashing to occurrs.

Slappy

"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." Proverbs 26:5

Although I don't believe the Bible was inspired by anything but a Jewish need to change actual history and perhaps other nefarious reasons, I will for the moment, assume Jesus actually said what the Bible says he said.

Really? Huh, that's awfully weird then. Why would Jews write such things down 'to change history' and then completely reject them, as they have the NT? There's some logic there that I'm completely missing.

Then again, the guys who wrote the Gospels waited about 30 to 50 years to actually write anything about Jesus. One has to wonder WHY it took them THAT long to write about the greatest human who ever lived and His accomplishments in the entire history of this planet.

Umm...do u know anything about how history was kept in those times? It was mostly ORAL, as in spoken, NOT written. Go find a dictionary if that still doesn't clarify it enough for you. Besides 30-50 years is nothing. What do you think the Gospel authors did, keep a diary and 'publish' them as soon as Jesus ascended? How many biographies have been written in the last 100 years alone that have a time lapse like that? And that's with all the technology we have now.

Jesus never once put women in a secondary position. In fact he kept company with a number of them and never made them a class of second-class humans. Yeah, he called his mother "Woman" instead of "Mommie", but what he called her was actually what she was. Paul made them second-class humans, at least in religious authority matters. How many MEN were camped out at Jesus' tomb? Uh, none. Depending upon the accounts, there were 1 or 2 or 3 women there. Where was Peter and the other guys? Losers.

Um, first off, Matthew 22:29 "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God." Secondly look at Philippians 4:3 "And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life." Second class humans? I'm missing it...anyway, back to what Jesus said concerning those that tried making an argument on a faulty base due to not understanding what they were arguing; keep that in mind next time, it will serve you well.

Paul could never talk about the "nature" of Jesus, because unlike the real Apostles, he didn't know him. He talked in terms of abstractions, but without intimate knowledge.

Yea, this'll go back to your lack of understanding what you're talking about...again. Read Acts 9:1-9; not sure if it can get much more intimate and personal than that.

It's all bullshit.

It's always nice to see an educated comment from an educated person.

Nothing further your Honor.

slappy

ps. "Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive" Proverbs 17:28

38

Paul and Jesus

by Slappy in

maybe it's just me, but lately it seems like there is a trend (well, moreso than usual in any case) of saying that paul is somehow of a different mind than jesus and that the teachings of the two contradict each other.

while i can see where having a jw background can easily bring this type of thinking around, most especially since they extol the teachings of paul and completely ignore christ, most of you are no longer under the power of the watchtower...er, you aren't are you?

and as such, you should be free of most, if not all, of the brainwashing to occurrs.

Slappy

That's interesting Joseph. I know that Paul had called them out on such an issue, I'd just never thought of it in the sense that you just mentioned. I'll have to keep that in mind as I study.

I just find it interesting that even after Peter had his vision from God before he was asked to visit Cornelius (Acts 10), Paul still had to correct him on that same issue that God had revealed to him (Galatians 2:11-13). Peter had given into the 'peer pressure' and didn't have the conviction necessary (as of yet in any case) to hold fast to the fact that Jewish traditions are of naught under the day of Grace.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out that little detail.

slappy

10

Who is the god of the J.W.?

by Aculama in

this one is mostly for those who believe in god ( though i don't wish to exclude any interested ).

it is my belief that the j.w.

organization painted a false picture of who god is by means of false doctrine, misinterpretation of scripture, and false prophesy.

Slappy

I agree...completely!

JW 'god' = themselves.

And like you said, it is frustrating to see those that have realized the truth behind the JW religion completely cut off any ties with the Bible and the God contained therein because of its association with the JW religion.

I know many of them claim that all religions are the same and that all are therefore 'bad' due to their experience with one of many. And you know, I agree with that. Most, if not all, 'organized religions' are that way, in one form of another. However, just because most everybody misuses a tool (the Bible), that doesn't mean the tool is itself the thing to blame. More likely, it means that those who are attempting to use it--or knowingly misuse it (the guy that tried to trim his hedge with a lawnmower...)--either have no idea how to use it, or apply their own "user's manual" and act like they know how to use it. You would think that those who have escaped the clutches of the cult would realize this; afterall, they were intelligent enough to leave the cult, so they should be able to realize the misuse of the Bible instead of automatically associating it with 'evil' and disregarding it completely.

I wonder if fear has a little/lot to do with such a stance. It would be terrible to be caught back up into something as detrimental as the Watchtower. As such, it's just easier to ignore the idea of a God altogether and see if they can put together some semblence of a normal life. Completely understandable. And yet, what about going outside one's comfort zone to learn and to grow? Afterall, that is what those within the Watchtower's clutches had to do to escape in the first place.

I know many people like to use the analogy of the 4 blind men and the elephant in relation to God (aka. 'religion'). However, what about the fifth blind man? He felt nothing so argued that the elephant didn't exist. However, what is quite clear from the analogy is that the elephant truly was there, it's just that everybody is blind. And the one who was turned away from the elephant knew nothing of it. While ignorance may indeed be bliss, it can also be deadly.

38

Paul and Jesus

by Slappy in

maybe it's just me, but lately it seems like there is a trend (well, moreso than usual in any case) of saying that paul is somehow of a different mind than jesus and that the teachings of the two contradict each other.

while i can see where having a jw background can easily bring this type of thinking around, most especially since they extol the teachings of paul and completely ignore christ, most of you are no longer under the power of the watchtower...er, you aren't are you?

and as such, you should be free of most, if not all, of the brainwashing to occurrs.

Slappy

Maybe it's just me, but lately it seems like there is a trend (well, moreso than usual in any case) of saying that Paul is somehow of a different mind than Jesus and that the teachings of the two contradict each other. While I can see where having a JW background can easily bring this type of thinking around, most especially since they extol the teachings of Paul and completely ignore Christ, most of you are no longer under the power of the Watchtower...er, you aren't are you? And as such, you should be free of most, if not all, of the brainwashing to occurrs. You are now free to think for yourselves. And yet, forgive me if I'm off base here, I get the impression that you disregard what Paul has to say because the Watchtower used his 'clarifications' so harmfully, and you connect that harm with Paul. While this is completely understandable, that doesn't make it right.

Before I get too far in, I'll just say that there was a point when I too had the exact same impression of Paul. I didn't get why everybody in the denomination I grew up in was so focused on the Epistles of Paul and the other disciples. Also, I had formed the idea that they were not focused enough on Christ and spending far too much time and reading much too far into what the apostles had to say. While I still hold to the later, my perception has changed over the years as I have matured, Biblically. Having thrown aside the tinted glasses of any form of 'organized' religion, I was free to study as I was of a will and free to see what the Bible had to say for itself and not what others had to say for it.

Furthermore, I too, held the impression that Jesus, as God, was one we should follow, and Paul, as a man, was one who should be taken with a grain of salt. However, I was disregarding the simple fact that the the Epistles are held to be Divinely inspired. Now I know that many scoff at that thought, but bear with me. While many people bring up the Council of Nicaea and extrapolate various theories from there, I think many overlook the fact that most, if not all, of the documents brought to the table, as it were, were in existence well before the council occurred. We are now 2,000 years or so removed from such things; who do you think would have a better idea of what is Divinely inspired, and what isn't?

Anyway, I don't want to get into areas where I'm not as knowledgable as others, so I will leave well enough alone in that regard. I'm more of a Bible student than a Bible history student.

What grabbed my attention and prompted me to write what I have, besides what I mentioned at the start, is what I just read in Philippians 2.

"Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2:1-5

What struck me, is that if Paul really does contradict what Jesus taught, why does he always bring things back to Him? I think the only way that Paul would be able to contradict what Jesus taught is if he was looking for some personal gain and not the glory of his Savior and the blessing of others (1 Corinthians 10:33). If that was truly the case, you'd think that if Paul was looking for some gain for himself, he'd try to bring the focus on himself, and away from Christ. And yet he doesn't...ever. Another portion that gives an example of how true Paul was to Christ and therefore to all others, is found in 1 Corinthians:

"But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that...But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her." 1 Corinthians 7:6-7 & 12

Paul made it abundantly clear when he would mention something that were his ideas and not necessarily commandments (inspiriation) from Christ. Seems rather odd for one to say something like that if he truly was voicing his own ideas (contradicting Christ), does it not?

Anyway, just something for you to ponder. As I said before, I had similar feelings until I truly began to delve into the Bible and gain a greater understanding of things.

slappy

15

In the Bible, what does" stop judging " mean to you ?

by caliber in

matthew 7:1, 2--stop judging that you may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged.

the greek word in that verse is krino.

there are seven (7) different meanings to that one word.

Slappy

Oh...sorry. I guess that I'm so tired of people taking portions out of context to prove this thing or that thing that I over-reacted. My bad.

As for my opinion, I try not to judge. Not that that's the easiest thing to accomplish, that's for sure.

Well, here's a question, do we judge the person, or do we judge what that person does? Is there even a difference?

5

Some things that have proven to be false

by oddpotter in

the un taking over the world and becoming the 8th world power.

the un is impotent.

i doubt that the un will be around .

Slappy

While I don't waste my time studying prophecy, I have had various ideas occur to me as I have studied the Bible and heard and seen what is happening in the world around us. The following is one of the ideas that I've come across.

Governments turning on Religion. Not a chance. Every day the
world becomes more non-religious. Religion will implode
on its own, it won't need government to turn on it. This will
happen very gradually over the next 200 years or so.

Exactly! I've come to the conclusion that the falling away referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is just what you said. Complete and utter apathy to the things of God. What could be more apathetic than completely ignoring something? Also, Revelation 3:16 may give some support to such a thought.

15

In the Bible, what does" stop judging " mean to you ?

by caliber in

matthew 7:1, 2--stop judging that you may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged.

the greek word in that verse is krino.

there are seven (7) different meanings to that one word.

Slappy

Ahh...be careful not to take portions out of context...as you just did. When you read the following verses, things are put into perspective, no?

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your borther's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from you own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5

Furthermore, when you understand what verse 6 is saying, you will see that it goes hand in hand with what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 5.

"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." Matthew 7:6

While it is not an easy portion to understand, when you do, you will see that Paul was mirroring exactly what Jesus said, just in a way that could be more easily understood by those who weren't familiar with Jewish expressions. The point is that 'what is holy' and 'your pearls' refers to the value of rebuke (or condemnation) to a true believer (one who is 'wise' in the words of Solomon). The dogs and swine refer to those who are not believers, or as Solomon refers to such in Proverbs, 'fools'. And speaking of Proverbs, there are many portions that refer to 'rebuke' and how the 'wise' and the 'foolish' receive such. One such portion that is readily applicable is in Proverbs 25:12:

"Like an earring of gold and an ornament of fine gold is a wise rebuker to an obedient ear." Proverbs 25:12

Again, you stopped your quote of 1 Corinthians 5 too short and lost what was truly being said.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person." 1 Corinthians 5:12

What happens when blatant wrongdoing is allowed to go on without any sort of deterrent? It gives the impression that that wrongdoing is condoned. This is not the impression that should be given.

25

Economic Crisis!

by the sage in

have we arrived?.

rev.16:16 then they gathered the kings together to the place that in hebrew is called armageddon.. rev.16:19 the great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed.

god remembered babylon the great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.

Slappy

What is the fascination with this constant focus on 'end-times' prophecies??!!! What use is it?

It's incredibly ironic (and highly annoying) when people focus on one part of the Bible to predict all this 'end-time' stuff and ignore the parts that say that we will never know when the end will come until it is upon us and it's already too late for people.

"But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:32

Seems quite clear to me.

"Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mark 13:33-37

While that portion seems to say to look for (predict) the end, it doesn't. It is telling us to be READY for the end.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

Slappy

Found this to be interesting. Mabe it'll bring the true Biblical interpretation of 'rejoice' into it's proper place.

Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The fast of the fourth [month], and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace. Zechariah 8:19

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

Slappy

Rennia:

If you truly believe in the Bible, then this should forever put your mind at ease. However, if you are looking to go about solving things in a way that ignores the Bible, then you will forever be turning in circles and naught will be accomplished. So, throw out all your reasonings and stop trying to convince others of something so incredibly unimportant, and as Solomon would say, "vanity", and focus on what really matters.

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter..." Ecclesiastes 12:13

"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence. [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me." Romans 14-15:3

Sorry (to everybody else) for posting the entire portion, but it's obvious that she has either not comprehended this portion, or is conveniently ignoring it so as to support an ulterior motive.

"For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all [men] in all [things], not seeking mine own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved."1 Corinthians 10:30-33