Posts by Damocles

49

How did you find the strength to leave?

by SAHARA in

to all of you exjws, i'm sure you've been asked this question one way or the other many times and i'm sure the answer is different for many of you, i'd like to know directly from you never having a chance to hear or read many exjw's answers to this.

knowing that you would be cut off from your family and friends and other consequences for your decision to leave, how did you ever get the strength to do it?

i mean really, i find it fascinating to know that there are so many of you who were at one time very devout, if not at the very least loyal to one of the most successful mind-contol organizations ever who believed all if not most of what the society taught and still you found the courage to risk everything once you accepted that it isn't what it claims to be.

Damocles

I don't know exactly. A lot of stuff happened at the same time and even now (10 yrs later) I have some troubles pulling the threads apart.

I very mistakenly and now regretfully believed that I should keep my doubts to myself and a few JW adult friends and away from my children. When I realized what an ass I was and how damaging that sort of hypocrisy is on children, I left in a rush with some hopes of redeeming at least a little bit for the kids. Too late though most of the damage was done.

We had a crew of 6-8 dubs that regularly got together and trashed the GB and local nitwit elders. Really great fun. Side-splitting humor. I still laugh to think of some of the jokes. Yet, of that crew, I'm the only one who left so far as I know. I don't really know why I had the gumption and the others didn't. And I certainly don't condemn them. They all have good reasons to stay.

I think it was near-run thing for me. I could easily have stayed had things happened even a little differently. But boy am I ever glad to be quit of that craziness.

On the other hand, one more lesson on the 'generation' and tacking - or one more talk on not whacking off might have pushed me one toke over the line and postal. Who knows.

47

OMG! I am 50 this year! Why am I freaking out? Anger - how do you cope?

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

i was told when i hit thirty and was catastrophising, "just wait till you are 40, it just gets better.".

ha!.

i am fifty in a few weeks.

Damocles

For me, its all about each day. I have a failing in thinking too much about the future so that I can't enjoy the present. Don't have much of a problem with the past. Sure I stayed a dub too long, but it wasn't wholly bad. No its too much living in the future that is my bane and at 60 there is not as much future to obsess on.

I try to enjoy the good things of each day. Of course, there are the rare perfect days and the rare perfectly shitty days, but mostly its a mix. Right now the roses, iris and peonies are blooming gloriously. The bay magnolia puts a sweet odor on the whole yard not to speak of the honey suckle. The dog is asleep by my feet. I am well fed and enjoying a glass of rum before bed. Its a good day.

You know if you string together enough good days, you may come up with a good life.

54

Has Anyone Gone Back to College Post 40?

by daringhart13 in

jw
friends

i'm admitting to be very pissed off.....and bitter.

i'm sick of having no job security (i know its relative), but mostly because i did not go to college....... has anyone gone back to school post 40?

how was the experience?

Damocles

I did my undergraduate work in my 30s and graduate in my 40s. Finished with my doctorate in physical chemistry in my early 50s.

I was lucky in that I knew exactly what I wanted and it fit in perfectly with my career. Also, it was paid for mostly by companies I worked for.

On the other hand, it was a strain on me and the family and I eventually divorced and left the witnesses. So it wasn't all a bed of roses. Some have blamed my leaving the witnesses and the divorce on the education although I don't see it that way.

Financially, its been wonderful. But more than that, the education trained my mind to thinking - that is to critical thinking. In and of itself, that would be worth it to me.

I thrived on the part-time school. Not everyone does. That's a critical piece of information about yourself you need to learn to decide which approach to take. As someone noted, community college is a fine way to ease your way back into learning, develop some good habits and find out if you need to go full or part-time.

Good luck.

71

Is this for real?

by AK - Jeff in

or photoshop?

did the wts actually print this shit?.

i think i will puke!.

Damocles

Well, I'm strangely excited by the spiked heels and that heavenly look. Mmmm

So let me get it straight.

For men, new jeans are ok, faded jeans are not...except new, baggy jeans are not ok.

For women - no jeans and no denim skirts. I'll just accept the color matter, although in a strict interpretation of the law red denim is denim....and with those spiked heels really, really hot.

Reminds me of the good ole days when the GB tried to rule on sex...without ever using any of the words. Oral sex was wrong of course...but what exactly is 'oral sex'? Anal sex taboo. What else? Those were some fun studies...till I got home and even missionary sex was suspect.

Maybe pictures would have helped. On the bulletin board would be particularly helpful. Even more reason to stand in the back mid way through the meeting.

71

Is this for real?

by AK - Jeff in

or photoshop?

did the wts actually print this shit?.

i think i will puke!.

Damocles

So, what's the deal with a denim skirt? Why is that objectionable?

61

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Atheist

by BurnTheShips in

please note that this list is intended to apply to the fundies alone.

not to all nonbelievers.

so let's turn the mirror and grab some popcorn:.

Damocles

Mindmelda

Amen

Damocles

61

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Atheist

by BurnTheShips in

please note that this list is intended to apply to the fundies alone.

not to all nonbelievers.

so let's turn the mirror and grab some popcorn:.

Damocles

Fundamentalist Atheist. Hmm. Two words I wouldn't ordinarily put together. I'm getting sweaty palms thinking about Sister Rosario with the ruler demanding that I diagram that phrase. What's the object? What's the adjective? Two ists. I'm in trouble now, hold out the palms for the smack of the ruler.

I don't know about god and don't really care. Are you atheist if you don't give a shit? Are you a fundamental atheist if the shit you don't give is fundamental? How exactly would that work? And is it painful?

I do know that the imaginary friend JWs call Jehovah is a figment. I do know the dude described in the Bible can't be anything but the result of someone's imagination. I'm sure that Sister Rosario's god was both a figment and a fiend. I do know that all the supposed gods of the few religions I have investigated are imaginary.

Beyond that I don't know anything.

Basically, I don't like ists or isms. Be they for or against god.

So why did I stay a dumb dub for so long?

Sigh!

46

If we evolved why is the brain more than we need?

by cyberjesus in

i dont believe in creation anymore.

according to the evolution theory we adapt based on our needs.

but the human brain is far superior than our needs.

Damocles

We do use all our brain. The 10% refers to active brain cells. The other 90% of cells provide the structural support for the active brain cells. The non-active cells supply nutrition and take away waste products. They also provide the geometric scaffold for the neurons. The argument is like saying we only use 10% of our computer because by weight, the processor is only 10% of the total (probably a lot less). Problem is you can't do much with a chip in your hand without all the support stuff.

On a related note, Jared Diamond in 'Guns Germs and Steel' argues that modern society is selecting for disease resistance not intelligence. So, he reckons that the average hunter-gatherer is more intelligent than the average modern city dweller since stupid hunters don't last long but stupid bankers get great bonuses (ok I made that last bit up). Something interesting to think about.

53

Anyone leave the org without the help of the net?

by Miss Chievous in

just wondering if anyone here left the org without ever looking at anything on the net and if so how did it happen for you?.

miss c.

Damocles

The internet had nothing to do with my quitting.

I 'officially' quit around 2000 but really quit in 92-3. Stayed because of the family. I read anti-witness lit all along even before I joined in the early 70s. It didn't change my mind - just confirmed things I already suspected. Franz' book was illuminating but again just confirmed what I already knew. Thing about high control organizations is that the local group is usually a near perfect reflection of the larger one. So what you get with the local elders ought to be the same as the GB. Scary thought, huh?

I quit because the dubs are wrong pretty much about everything they teach. Besides mostly they're a miserable bunch of sad sacks. Really depressing to be around.

I didn't get on here till a few years ago when my daughter wanted me to come to her wedding - which is bizarre since she hasn't talked to me at all before or since. People are strange. I came to this site before I went to the wedding to catch up on what was going on in dub land in the 8-9 years since I left. Still wrong and still miserable.

47

Jehovah's Witnesses - Trained to Argue

by AllTimeJeff in

although a cult, jehovah's witnesses should not be underestimated as to their smarts.

sometimes, exiting jw's, due to indoctrination, feel a lot of guilt for leaving.

of course, the governing body wouldn't have it any other way.. upon leaving, many for the first time feel a freedom to express themselves, which is as it should be.

Damocles

ATJeff,

Elbert Hubbard! Now there's a blast from the past. I haven't thought of him in 40 years. Used to read lots of his stuff in the late 60s and early 70s.

Oliver Wendell Holmes used to play a game with his Court. He'd have one Justice chose an issue, another the decision, and the third the legal principle. Holmes would then come up with an argument and rationalization to support the decision. So it would be like a limitation to hand gun sales (second amendment) with a decision that no limitations allowed based on the law that there will be no establishment of religion. In other words, the principle or law had nothing to do with the decision yet he'd tie it in. He never lost the game.

His point is that we decide a position or a moral stance first, then craft the logic and reason to support that position - not the other way around (an idea much liked by the pragmatists). The decision is complex involving some facts, logic reason but also personal history, emotion and perceived consequences. He did not think it was really possible to tease out the influence of all these factors and he did believe that logic and reason are flexible enough to cover nearly any belief.

Correct or not it is thought provoking. I think most dubs are flagrant examples of that idea. The first decision is 'I am a dub' and then the rationalizations are formed.

'The Metaphysical Club' by Louis Menard is a well-written history and discussion of the thought of Holmes, James, Dewey and others in America and their influence on modern thought. I highly recommend it.