what did you give up to become a witness?.
was it something you are still glad about or something you regret.. i'll start of with things i gave up.
(even though i was brought up in the truth talks and the mags made you guilty about certain things).
My college education (went back afterward and still working on it , A normal guilt free sex life with my husband, Holidays with my family, lots of true friends (who thankfully were still there for me when I came to my senses), my ability to think and communicate clearly ( I am working on it).
Puffs rule congratulations on your perserverance your story is inspiring. Neon what a great story thanks for sharing it with us.
well ladies and laddies,.
my favs are root bear and ginger ale.
however, only vernor's ginger ale - by far the best.
Pepsi or RC Cola
i have had a couple of discussions about freewill lately but it seems as if i am talking to a brick wall.
here is my basic reasoning, perhaps you can point out what i am missing.. lets outline the 2 common assumptions normally associated with the debate concerning adam, god and freewill:.
2. god gave adam freewill to obey him or not to.
interesting thought Cello. I have to be honest and say that I must look up enthalpy and entropy in the dictionary before I comment further. Thanks for introducing new words into my vocabulary. By the way that has been my motto for a long time and I don't remember having another one . but hey I have a terrible memory what was my old one?
i have had a couple of discussions about freewill lately but it seems as if i am talking to a brick wall.
here is my basic reasoning, perhaps you can point out what i am missing.. lets outline the 2 common assumptions normally associated with the debate concerning adam, god and freewill:.
2. god gave adam freewill to obey him or not to.
Grave dancer thankyou for posting this subject I have wondered about this for along time. When I was 12 years old I was considering getting baptized in the Seventh aDay Adventist Church, I was studying with the pastor and we were going over baptism questions. I asked him this same question using this little childish story to try to explain what I meant.
" Say you were from a far away country that had no grapes or apples and had seen nor tasted neither. You came to my house and I offered you a choice of apple or grape juice. I had only grape juice in the fridge and regardless of your answer that is what I would pour for you to drink. Would it matter that I offered you a choice since either way you would windup with the same thing. Was it really a choice or did it just seem like it. Either way you would never know the difference"
Now I know that this is not the the most sophisticated argument ever but come on I was twelve. It really bothered me even then despite the fact that I could not express it correctly. Well he said " You just have to have faith". So I got baptized anyway but that's another story.
It has never made sense to me. I was taught that God knew who would be in the book of life before you were even conceived (SDA teaching), Well if that is the case then what is the difference what I choose to do for most of my life. God can't be wrong so in the end he will intervene just so he can be right. Not excactly loving.
just my two cents thanks for listening to me ramble.
suddenly i am hit with this overwhelming feeling that we are wrong and that there are logical explanations for all of the things that dont make sense.
aaaah.
this is awful.
Compromising your conscience is a high price to pay but not neccesarily the highest. do you have family or close friends who are witnesses? What will happen if one of them is ever disfellowshipped and you can no longer associate with or even speak to them? What if it is your own children, what if they feel the desire to fit in during their early teens and get baptized only to find out a short while later that they aren't really sure what the truth really is. They act on normal human impulses and are soon ousted from the congregation(this is normal and quite common). Will you go along with the society and turn your back on your own children? Or will you rebel and continue to associate with them until the society ousts you too and you are in the same place (perhaps worse) than you are right now. With more years of your life wasted on an organization you are unsure of but with which you stayed merely to fill a void.
I panicked a few times too and had the same type of thoughts. I even went back to the hall for just one more visit. When I saw how empty and shallow that meeting was I felt devestated. I had wished that just going back would be the solution and was scared of the unknown that lay ahead. Where would I go what would I do ? Sometimes when you are afraid the false security of the org doesn't seem so bad. But think further ahead (six of nine mentioned that you have a son) what will he have to give up sports, education, the feeling of being accepted by his school mates? So many things I can not even name but perhaps you can. And what will he gain? Guilt, poor self esteem,perhaps only to come to the same ideas that have caused you to doubt as well. If you need to fit in look around you for an organization you can join in your community, volunteer at a Head Start, Senior Center, coach a child's sports team. Give it some time, continue to read the posts on this board. Have you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz? He doesn't have all the answers either but gives a strong argument for why we can't continue to live a lie simply because it is the easiest way. I wish you the best, it can be a rough road but really it is a small price to pay for the true freedom and peace of mind you will someday have. My prayers are with you in this journey.
my buddie and i were wondering if a jw could do this,it contains nicotine ,is it a jw banned substance?.
i don`1t know what do you think?.
glen
The antidepressant Wellbutrin is also used to help people stop smoking(marketed under a different name which I can't think of at the moment). It is supposed to be very effective and does not contain nicotine, a side effect of the medication is weight loss. Cool!
i heard an interesting thought tonight.
does it seem accurate or was i sucked in by the speakers charismatic presentation?.
satan was an angel in heaven but decided he wanted to be like god (not just an angel).
Notorious Madman: From what I understood of the speakers message God has a genuine love for us and wants our salvation (same basic deal as most every religion teaches).
They just had this different slant on why we were created in God's image. Basically satan said " I want to be like God" and tried to rebel against his assigned role as an angel . God created humans in his own image partly to show Satan who the power belonged to and to remind him of his mistake, Human beings are created in God's image and are all born with a chance at everlasting life, this is something satan knows he can never have.
I hope I answered your question. If not, then I'm not sure I can. The idea I posted was not my own but that of a speaker named Jeremy Dalton
I heard him only once and do not have any way to ask him questions that come up as a result of this premise, that's why I am asking for your help in reasoning through this, thanks for your input.
i heard an interesting thought tonight.
does it seem accurate or was i sucked in by the speakers charismatic presentation?.
satan was an angel in heaven but decided he wanted to be like god (not just an angel).
Oops I didn't mean to give the impression that I heard this from the witnesses.
However I thought it did kinda tie in with some of the stuff they say. I was always taught (by JW's) that Satan was free to go back and forth from heaven to earth. Until Jesus took the throne (in 1914) then he expelled Satan and the demons and began the cleansing of the heavens. He confined satan to the earth. This was used to explain why things have gotten worse since 1914. It is because Satan knows that Jesus is King and he only has a short time so he has sped up his work and therefore his attacks on us.
it might be in the "Live Forever" book that is what I studied out of. Do you remember this last teaching from J.W's? The message I heard last night differed only in the fact that he wasn't talking about satan being confined to the earth but just cast down to it.
the scriptural reference is Revelation 12:1-17 again I am not saying I beleive any of these different interpretations, but I did find it interesting that is why I am asking for your thoughts and opinions.
Lone Wolf: Wow now that's some food for thought it certainly puts a new spin on cloning, in vitro and genetic engineering.Then again God himself created some pretty crazy, wierd mixed up animals when you look at some of the stuff out their (platypus etc) it makes unicorns look pretty normal
As for why God would bother to prophesy about satans's destruction the explanation given was that God being a God of vengeance (Nahum 1:1-3)is doing all of this to satan to "get even". By prophesying and making it come true he is showing satan his power and sort of slow torturing him. Kind of like us when we have done wrong it is much more painful if we have to sit and wait for the anticipated consequences of our wrong doing rather than just getting it over with quickly.
Thanks for the input guys I am enjoying our discussion.
i heard an interesting thought tonight.
does it seem accurate or was i sucked in by the speakers charismatic presentation?.
satan was an angel in heaven but decided he wanted to be like god (not just an angel).
I heard an interesting thought tonight. Does it seem accurate or was I sucked in by the speakers charismatic presentation?
Satan was an angel in heaven but decided he wanted to be like God (not just an angel). He managed to turn away 1/3 of the angels in heaven who were cast down to earth. After Satans rebellion God made a new creature or creation "Human Beings" and he made us in his own (God's) image. This infuriates Satan even more because we have what he wanted (no we are not God but are created in his image). Satan has to live on the earth with us humans and be constantly reminded of his unfulfilled desires when he sees us humans (the bible does not say that angels are created in God's image).
O.K. it may sound simplistic but the part about us being what satan desired but could not attain is totally new to me. It was told in such a way as to insinuate that this was a part of God's revenge on Satan. What do you think?
i love this movie.
we watched the dvd last night and the outtakes and the funny stuff they have from it.
it was great....
Bat out of Hell is the best. I threw my original copy away when I started studying (yeah I know ) but as soon as I came to my senses I bought another copy. My favorite is "For crying outloud" also "two out of three ain't bad". As for "Rocky" I never could get into it but I would love to go to a theatre to really experience it.
