MadGiant

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Posts by MadGiant

• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

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  MadGiant

  "According to dictionary anecdote is “a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person.” Why can’t this be a proof? Now it is proof for me. When you try, it becomes a proof for you. When the whole world tries, it becomes a proof for the world." - ex

  Testimonials and vivid anecdotes are one of the most popular and convincing forms of evidence presented for beliefs in the supernatural, paranormal, and pseudoscientific. Nevertheless, testimonials and anecdotes in such matters are of little value in establishing the probability of the claims they are put forth to support. Sincere and vivid accounts of one’s encounter with an angel or the Virgin Mary, an alien, a ghost, a Bigfoot, a child claiming to have lived before, purple auras around dying patients, a miraculous dowser, a levitating guru, or a psychic surgeon are of little value in establishing the reasonableness of believing in such matters.

  Anecdotes are unreliable for various reasons. Stories are prone to contamination by beliefs, later experiences, feedback, selective attention to details, and so on. Most stories get distorted in the telling and the retelling. Events get exaggerated. Time sequences get confused. Details get muddled. Memories are imperfect and selective; they are often filled in after the fact.

  People misinterpret their experiences. Experiences are conditioned by biases, memories, and beliefs, so people's perceptions might not be accurate. Most people aren't expecting to be deceived, so they may not be aware of deceptions that others might engage in. Some people make up stories. Some stories are delusions. Sometimes events are inappropriately deemed psychic simply because they seem improbable when they might not be that improbable after all. In short, anecdotes are inherently problematic and are usually impossible to test for accuracy.

  Ismael
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  "To all those who want proof for the existence of God:
  I AM THE PROOF." - ex

  Believers all claim that their god answers prayer when from my experience all that's going on is something called selective observation, where a believer counts the hits and discounts the misses. Keep track, list the specific prayers you pray. Keep in mind that you generally will only pray for things which you expect can happen too. You do not pray that a mountain is uprooted and planted in the sea. So already your prayer requests are limited and already you do not pray for the kinds of things jesus told you could happen because you live in a scientific era. Then be brutally honest with the results. No fudging like horoscope readers regularly do.

  Was the prayer answered exactly as you prayed it? No punting to what believers around the globe do, either. No saying, well god knows best, or that he didn't give me what I wanted but what I needed. Then see what happens. Then see how many times prayers are answered.

  The bottom line is that I cannot believe. But even this should be no trouble for god if he exists. Just like he supposedly showed himself to Moses, Gibeon, and Paul he could do so for me. And if he could do that without abrogating their human freedom then he can do that with me too. Pray that this happens. I'm open to it. God could even snap his fingers and take away what he created me with, a critical mind. Then I wouldn't demand evidence any more and believe. Of course if not, the problem is why he created me this way and then doesn't provide what I need to believe. Crazy isn't it.

  And today logical fallacies are:

  appeal to emotion
  You attempted to manipulate an emotional response in place of a valid or compelling argument.
  Appeals to emotion include appeals to fear, envy, hatred, pity, pride, and more. It's important to note that sometimes a logically coherent argument may inspire emotion or have an emotional aspect, but the problem and fallacy occurs when emotion is used instead of a logical argument, or to obscure the fact that no compelling rational reason exists for one's position. Everyone, bar sociopaths, is affected by emotion, and so appeals to emotion are a very common and effective argument tactic, but they're ultimately flawed, dishonest, and tend to make one's opponents justifiably emotional.

  And:

  anecdotal
  You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.
  It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

  Ismael
• 
  66

  "We're calling on your neighbours to promote a website"

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wow, it's true - they don't call to 'promote god's kingdom' anymore but just their website!.

  we just had an old lady call and tell us that was exactly what they were doing and it has "lots of good things on their for children".

  yeah, right ... sparlock?.

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  MadGiant

  That's good, a phase two perhaps?

  Soon they will start to promote merchandise thru the website (for sale). How long so you think is going to take to turn JW.org into anway.com (cult), herbalife.com (cult) or something like that. Witnesses will be "encourage" to buy (via donations) something on regular bases.

  Ismael
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  Albert Einstein is sometimes claimed by religious theists seeking the sanction of a famous scientist for their theistic views, but Einstein denied the existence of the traditional concept of a god. From some perspectives his position would be seen as atheism or no different from atheism. He admitted to being a freethinker, which in a German setting is much the same as atheism, and as any good freethinker, his views changes with evidence.

  I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms. (Albert Einstein, Obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. - Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954

  It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. - Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

  During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world. - Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught

  I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being. - Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  "Good point, the way I see it is in guided processes and evolution. God as the creator is the spark, beauty and pleasure are the result of guided processes, suffering and deformaties are a result of evolution left to it's own devices in unguided formations of nature. Similar to wear and tear of manmade objects. Eventually there will be a flaw in the process." - Kate

  This is a contradiction. This argument just make god, any god completely redundant.

  Ismael
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  "If evil and suffering exist, it only shows evil and suffering exist--that's all, it will not prove God does not exist." - Ex
  "If evil and suffering exist, it proves man has chosen evil and its resultant suffering! He is not in the habit of learning from experience--his or of others. Otherwise things such as anger and alcohol .... would have long disappeared from the surface of the earth. Because things such as them prove more mischievous than the things one is angry about, or grapples with." - Ex

  Sorry, my friend, but this is not an argument, it doesn't establish that god exist either. Applying this argument to actual examples of evil results in really bizarre statements. If someone murders a man's wife, you would tell him that his wife did not experience evil, she just experienced a temporary lack of (what?), while the killer was stabbing her with a knife. Nevertheless, the man still experiences suffering and his wife is dead, regardless of how you describe this event (god, no god, evil, no evil). If real, an omnibenevolentt dog would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.

  One doesn't even need examples to show the oddity. Applying this line at a conceptual level is sufficient. If evil is the relative lack of god's inclusion in a situation, then what is the baseline? How much light do we need to see? How much heat do we need to feel warm? How much Dog do we need to be good?

  You are avoiding facing the fact that the point we are arguing requires a completely unknown mechanism (paranormal powers, Goddidit, Aliensdidit, etc) to work properly.

  And your logical fallacy is...
  strawman
  You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
  By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

  And your logical fallacy is...
  composition/division
  You assumed that one part of something has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it; or that the whole must apply to its parts.
  Often when something is true for the part it does also apply to the whole, or vice versa, but the crucial difference is whether there exists good evidence to show that this is the case. Because we observe consistencies in things, our thinking can become biased so that we presume consistency to exist where it does not.

  Also...
  middle ground
  You claimed that a compromise, or middle point, between two extremes must be the truth.
  Much of the time the truth does indeed lie between two extreme points, but this can bias our thinking: sometimes a thing is simply untrue and a compromise of it is also untrue. Half way between truth and a lie, is still a lie.

  Ismael
• 
  130

  Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

  jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

  interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MadGiant

  "Atheists believe that God should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then He does not exist.
  JWs believe that God will intervene sometime in the “last days”!" - Ex

  Here is the problem. Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods. The word stems from the Greek a- meaning "without", and theos meaning "god". Theos includes the Abrahamic YHWH(s), Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and every other deity from A to Z (and 0-9, !, ", #, $ or any other character, obviously).

  The "argument" you described in the OP is made to force believers to challenge their believes and use logic. Not all gods are believed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, or even any of the three. Many gods are morally flawed, actively evil, or merely indifferent, and many are not all-powerful. The logical problem of evil doesn't apply to these gods, though the evidential problem of evil may still apply. This agrees with the point of the problem of evil, that the existence of an flawed, evil, indifferent, or non-omnipotent entity would be compatible with reality, while the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent entity would not.

  Think about it, the problem of evil takes many forms. A god would be able to prevent evil and suffering. Evil and suffering exist. Therefore, the assumption of a god, any god is false.

  I already know, their is no evidence to support the existence of a god, any god. The purpose of the argument it to make you THINK.

  Ismael

  edit: what Finkelstein said.
• 
  40

  Stay Alive till '75

  by John Chapman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "stay alive till '75.

  " remember that?

  note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

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  MadGiant

  "MadGiant, what do you want to do? You don't want someone else making decisions for you do you? That's what Babylon and the governments have been doing to you all your life..." - JC

  But I am confuse right now and I need guidance. I think you know what you are doing. Help me. Ismael
• 
  40

  Stay Alive till '75

  by John Chapman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "stay alive till '75.

  " remember that?

  note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

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  MadGiant

  "If you think it's all bullshit that's also ok." - JC

  We will be all right then.

  "BTW, why are drugs the first thing to come up in any converstion that is out of the box?" - JC

  If you want to terrify yourself, go into your medicine cabinet and read all of the really weird side effects at the bottom of the label. Beyond the normal "headache" or "upset stomach," you get weird shit that reads like ironic punishments from a vengeful genie.

  With all due respect, you have to admit, you wrote some weird stuff right there.

  Ismael