MadGiant

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Posts by MadGiant

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  28

  is it possible to raise good kids with out religious morals?

  by Princess Ashe in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  making up my mind on how to teach my son values in life seems to be an on going struggle of what is right and wrong.

  being raised in a sheltered jw life until after leaving high school seems like going from one extreme to another of being over restrictive or under.

  trying to find that balance.

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  MadGiant

  Actually, every one of us were raised without "bible morals". Following "bible morals" in this day and age will send you to jail.
• 
  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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  MadGiant

  "MadGiant, if you actually read the pages you linked to, you'd learn the following:" -

  My friend, the idea (and you will find similar examples every-time I posted a link) is variety of material. You can think whatever you want, but the followers of Jesus incorporating elements from early myths and legends, not vice-versa. It's not even an original story. Deal with it!!!!

  Ismael
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  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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  MadGiant

  "Are not you basically asking if Jesus is really just a Copy-Cat Savior Myth "borrowed" from other Gods?" -

  All of the Pagan myths had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). It is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the followers of Jesus incorporating into his biography the myths and legends of Osiris-Dionysus, not vice-versa. I am not asking, their is no evidence.

  No sacrificing himself as a form of ritual blood sacrifice to appease the perfect justice of him/his father-God. No crucifixion or raising from the dead, nothing.

  All evidence we have for any of the spiritual events described within the Bible is the Bible itself. No physical evidence, no artifacts, no dwelling, no works of carpentry, no self-written manuscripts. No "historicity of Jesus", no "historical Jesus", nothing.

  Their is no evidence of a massive earthquakes followed by a darkness covering the land. You would think that if something like this really happened, then maybe a few local historians might have recorded it or that maybe the local astronomers would have noticed the sun blotting out three entire hours. But strangely enough, no such records exist, nothing.

  No dead people rising from their graves and roaming the streets. Surely, it’s reasonable to expect at least a few locals to mention a sudden zombie apocalypse somewhere in their memoirs, isn’t it? But nothing.

  This is reality. It doesn't matter what you, me or any of us think or do, all the items described above are real. It's reality. It's not doing to change with some wishful thinking. It is what it is.

  Take care,

  Ismael
• 
  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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  MadGiant

  "MadGiant, just an FYI, a lot of those details about parallels to Jesus don't seem to be found in any historical sources. I don't have time for a comprehensive response, but see this for starters" -

  All of the Pagan myths had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). It is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the followers of Jesus incorporating into his biography the myths and legends of Osiris-Dionysus, not vice-versa.

  Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus

  - His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin, 7 month pregnancy.
  - He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on 25 December before three shepherds.
  - He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.
  - He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.
  - He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.
  - He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
  - After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
  - His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.
  - His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.

  Ismael

  https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Osiris-Dionysus.html
  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris
  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
  http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm
  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_god
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  48

  A few questions for believers

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in christ on what's written in the bible.

  so what is the basis then, if not scripture?.

  and please don't tell me "the lord has revealed himself to me".

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  MadGiant

  

  "So what is the basis then, if not scripture?" -

  They are modifying the myth that have somehow survived to this day. Mythologies were an important part of the development of human intellect and understanding of the world, of which we had very little at the time. Most of the major elements of the story of Jesus Christ were co-opted from other sources—some that originated hundreds or even thousands of years. All of these elements - the virgin birth, significance of the solstices, the miracles, disciples, baptism, crucifixion, resurrection.

  More specific elements like heaven and hell, the soul, holy communion and others, were all seen before in multiple ancient pagan religions. So they just invent ways to soften the myth (without scripture).

  Ismael
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  8

  History of the church/Christianity, etc.

  by Joe Grundy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have learned a great deal from some of the very erudite posters on this site (thank you).. for many years i've been interested in the history of the development of christianity, not only from its earliest days but through the reformation, etc., and through to the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries when denominations, sects, cults took off in all directions like exploding fireworks.. i was aware, in broad terms, of luther, calvin and the development of protestantism from which so many denominations and sects (including jws) arose.

  i was vaguely aware of the schism (1,000 years ago) between the western (catholic) and eastern (orthodox) churches and was tangentially interested as to why it happened (if the 'east' was the home of christianity, how come the 'west' disagreed with it?).

  i was quite interested to read, while living in cyprus, a greek orthodox english language bible which had a large section in the back about the schism.

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  MadGiant

  "Here is a page from my website that deals with Christian History, both Apostate and Biblical." -

  Just to balance the research.

  http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/index.html

  Ismael
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  39

  Glory of creation is still untouched!

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to plato, the universe thrives on its own, dies and gets rebornall on its own and within itself.

  the wise symbolized this concept in ouroboros, a serpent eating its own tail.

  [even more wonderful is the marvel called a fruit-bearing treeit does not even eat its own fruit, but simply subsists on mostly what we may consider as dirt/refuse; and trees collectively perform yet another marvel of photosynthesis that make use of our wastes and give us oxygen, food, water, shelter, fiber..........................................[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/opinion/to-save-the-planet-dont-plant-trees.html?_r=0].

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  MadGiant

  The problem with Genesis 1:1 to 2:3 of the blible, is the affinity of the opening passage of Genesis to Enuma Elish, a Mesopotamian creation myth dated to about 1100 b.c. (Freedman 1992, 526—528). This poem, written in cuneiform on seven tablets and named for its first words, was discovered in the ruins of the library of Ashurbanipal in Nineveh. The story, now known in different renditions, opens when there is no heaven or earth. Only the male god Apsu (fresh water) and the female god Tiamat (sea water) exist. Their mingling of waters produces other gods and silt in the waters. Then a horizon separates clouds from silt, forming heaven and earth.

  Much of the narrative is concerned with discord and battle among the gods from which Marduk emerges as dominant. Along the way, celestial lights are placed in heaven, and Tiamat produces fearful animals to aid her struggle against other gods. Marduk heaps up mountains and opens springs to create the Tigris and Euphrates. He creates temples and the city of Babylon, and then makes man. The work of creation is finished within the first six tablets. The seventh tablet exalts the creation and greatness of Marduk’s work.

  I don't know what to say.Eexcept your god(s) is "real".

  Ismael
• 
  39

  Glory of creation is still untouched!

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to plato, the universe thrives on its own, dies and gets rebornall on its own and within itself.

  the wise symbolized this concept in ouroboros, a serpent eating its own tail.

  [even more wonderful is the marvel called a fruit-bearing treeit does not even eat its own fruit, but simply subsists on mostly what we may consider as dirt/refuse; and trees collectively perform yet another marvel of photosynthesis that make use of our wastes and give us oxygen, food, water, shelter, fiber..........................................[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/opinion/to-save-the-planet-dont-plant-trees.html?_r=0].

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  MadGiant

  "Yet here things could have been bit different. It seems those who disagreed did not read the post. What I highlighted is that “humans have never come anywhere even closer to the majesty of things in the nature--equipments humans have so far designed are clumsy and rudimentary in comparison with the things in nature.” Unfortunately, no one has commented on the essence of the posting!" -

  -

  "Therefore an external input is needed to sustain any closed loop cycle. So, how does the Universe thrive? Here is where Materialists bring in a STRANGE logic: There is someone [a cause] behind every equipment/device, but when something is too big as universe, there requires no Cause! [In other words, insignificant things need a creator whereas big things do not need a Creator] It’s like making a fuss about an insignificant item that has been stolen, but not being bothered at all about something very valuable that was stolen." -

  -

  I can't comment on the OP. Their is no logic behind the OP. Do you have data, evidence to support your statement?

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  "Can’t we see the forest rather than trees?" -

  -

  When this term is used in an discussion or argument is a logical fallacy and a contradiction.

  Ismael
• 
  39

  Glory of creation is still untouched!

  by Pinku in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to plato, the universe thrives on its own, dies and gets rebornall on its own and within itself.

  the wise symbolized this concept in ouroboros, a serpent eating its own tail.

  [even more wonderful is the marvel called a fruit-bearing treeit does not even eat its own fruit, but simply subsists on mostly what we may consider as dirt/refuse; and trees collectively perform yet another marvel of photosynthesis that make use of our wastes and give us oxygen, food, water, shelter, fiber..........................................[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/opinion/to-save-the-planet-dont-plant-trees.html?_r=0].

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  MadGiant

  "Now is it pure stupidity to consider an incredible enormous and wise and ingenious creator behind all of this?" -

  You have a poor understanding of the very thing you proposed.

  The zeroth law states that if systems A and B are both in thermal equilibrium with system C, then system B would have to be in thermal equilibrium with system A. The first law is the law of the conservation of energy. The second law is the law of entropy in closed systems. And finally, the third law is the law of absolute zero. That said, lets concentrate on the second law for now: "In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves a system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state."

  The second law of thermodynamics does not state that a system will always lose order or stay the same, it actually says that … In any closed system, the entropy of the system will either remain constant or increase.

  The key thing to understand here is the term “closed system”. If something, the second law state that in time, everything is going to "die".

  In statistics and data analysis, causalation is the fallacy of claiming a cause and effect relationship when either, none exists, the evidence does not support such a claim.

  Entropy
  Strictly speaking, entropy is the logarithm of the multiplicity of states, or the degree of dispersion of energy in a system. It is expressed by the equation Entropy = kB lnΩ, where kB is Boltzmann's constant and Ω is the multiplicity of the states.
  A more commonly given definition is "degree of disorder in the system," and hence the Second Law of Thermodynamics is often explained as "systems become increasingly disordered." From the definition above, this is equivalent to saying that a system will tend to transition from less probable to more probable sets of states.

  You are trying to mix religion and science, it won't work. We are here due to a series or random events, no god(s). Get over it.

  Ismael
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  26

  ALIENS!! (and the downfall of religion)

  by disposable hero of hypocrisy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  let me clarify, when i say aliens, i don't mean shiny helmeted spaceship dwelling anal probers.

  (although i could be proved wrong).

  if any alien lifeform was found on mars or another planet or even a comet, be it tiny bacteria or even some form of non carbon based life form, would that not destroy religions grip on mankind?

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  MadGiant

  "I'm just taking the stance of a religious person to point out that aliens aren't really an issue for true believers." -

  -

  And I did the exact same thing, and used the exact same book to say that god didn't create life on other planets.

  Crazy, isn't it?

  Ismael