A few questions for believers

by keyser soze 48 Replies latest jw friends

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  keyser soze

  When confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible, many believers invariably claim that they don't base their faith in Christ on what's written in the bible. So what is the basis then, if not scripture?

  And please don't tell me "The lord has revealed himself to me". That's not really an answer. How has he revealed himself, exactly? How do you know, unequivocably, that this is what's happening, as opposed to it being merely confirmation bias on your part?

  This isn't an attempt to mock. I ask with all sincerity. After leaving the JWs, I tried hard to hang on to my faith, but the lord revealed nothing to me. Was I not worthy enough? Or did he do so, and I just missed it? If it was the latter, why would he do so in a way I could not discern?
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  nicolaou

  Good luck Keyser, I've banged this drum so many times.
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  keyser soze

  I hear you. It's just the whole "The lord revealed himself to me, that's how I know" spiel that I'm trying to understand. I've gotten this on multiple occasions, and I really don't know what it means.
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  jgnat

  I'll put my big-girl hat and give it a shot. As you well know, however, I don't represent all believers.

  Jesus did not write down his teachings. He gathered a small group of followers and they learned at his feet, as it were. He then sent them out to practice what he preached. I would say then that a Christ-like life is learned by example not just by way of writing.

  So how have these teachings come down through the ages? By way of example and word of mouth, one Christian to another.

  I also personally think that Jesus has changed through the ages to suit modern mores. He drinks and curses less, and loves more.
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  bigmac

  the lord has revealed himself to me.

  ermm--well--here in the UK he would probably be arrested for that sort of behaviour
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  Phizzy

  The "Christian Faith" (not singular I know, there were a number of groups) but faith in Jesus existed long before the books of the N.T.

  So on what did the faith of those disparate groups rely ?

  It was what Karen Armstrong calls "Mythos", and was verbally transmitted. The various writings arose because of a need, to organise, to have guidance in Liturgy and Worship and so on.

  Paul's writings were for the purpose of establishing his own version of Christology, which bore scant resemblance to the others of his time, Ebionites et al.

  Modern followers of Jesus of Nazareth are no different from those early adherents, they listen to, and read what they choose, and pick and mix, from the Canon (ignoring much that is within that) and elsewhere, and then their "faith" is, they claim, their own.

  As jgnat says above, it all really springs from the habit that man has had since he became Sapiens, of Creating God in his own image, or the image he would like his God to be.

  In other words, a modern believing christian has no more foundation or basis for his/her faith than did primevil man when he tried to explain the noises in the forest, or whatever other things he could not explain, by saying it must be "god", or "spirits".
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  nicolaou

  So jgnat, do you think Jesus' teachings would have been preserved orally in the absence of scripture? I'll be honest, I think without the Bible the Jesus story might have been no more than a historical footnote. Could you honestly say you'd still be a Christian if you'd never encountered a Bible? I think not.
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  Perry

  When confronted with all of the inconsistencies and atrocities of the bible...

  Isn't that kinda poisoning the well?

  Most of the popularly cited "inconsistencies and attrocities" are dealt with here and here from a biblical and historical perspective. Other worldviews are effectively dealt with here and here.

  Essentially we are under condemnation from the womb. If you think we have a right to life, then MUCH of what God has done will appear wrong.

  And please don't tell me "The lord has revealed himself to me".

  Here's a list of things that from what I have personally experienced and learned may prevent God from revealing himself to a person, even though he is familiar with Jesus:

  1. A person must be willing to say good-bye to all his worldly posessions and even his own mother and father.

  2. He must abandon himself to Jesus.

  3. He must not only believe in Jesus as a historical figure but trust in him. For me, the kind of trust that it took for God to accept me is similar to jumping out of an airplane with a parachute on. People either fail to jump, or they fail to pull the rip cord, or they pull the rip cord of something other than the parachute, which is Christ our Savior. Most of us as JW's took the jump, but the cord we pulled wasn't Jesus Christ, it was the Watchtower corporation and our works. We might as well have tried to just flap our arms. The crash was inevetible.

  4. A person will fail to have God revealed to him personally if he puts his trust in Jesus AND ________________ (anything else). Jesus utterly rejects such a person.

  5. Failure to Repent

  I repented a number of times as a JW and afterwards but failed in the other respects.... never met God in those circumstances. Later, when I did it the biblical way, I did. The bottom line is that there is much more to getting right with God than a casual belief in Jesus. You must be born again or you will definitely never meet God in this life and in the next there is only a meeting at Judgment for your sins to expect.

  Hope this helps.
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  Honesty

  Perry posted it like it was for me too.

  Another problem as a JW was that I asked Jehovah to forgive me when I should have been asking Jesus to forgive me.

  As soon as I put all my trust in Jesus and asked Him to forgive me my whole world changed for the better.

  I suggest you read Romans and Galatians beginning at chapter 1 in each book and ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you.
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  paradisebeauty

  I belive the Bible is the word of God.

  What is presented in the Bible is the truth for me. Sometimes this truth includes some hystorical facts that happened, comitted by men, not neceesary at the command of God. If some peole comitted atrocities, those facts are written in the Bible because they happened, but they ar not taken as a good example. The bible is historycally correct. I do not believe atrecities were comitted by God. They were comitted by people and the bible is truthful about the facts.

  When God did command for some people to be killed, it was for justice purpose.

  And even if some innocent people were killed in the wars of God, he has the power to ressurect, he will give second chances to people who He considers that they deserve.

  And who are we to judge God?