Posts by LUKEWARM

43

Imperfection isn't the problem. The problem is accountability.

by AllTimeJeff in

this was such a profound statement on another thread that i think it bears some further thought, esp because the governing body tends to put their head in the sand as to how their current teachings and dogma do harm to their sheep.

we will come back to current teachings in a minute.. first of all, this is how jehovah's witnesses are taught to view their leaders.

from the july 1, 2007 wt "humbly submitting to loving shepherds".

LUKEWARM

Well said Jeff!!

How very convenient. Make the actual way to learn about the lies and mistakes of this self appointed prophet a matter of faith and obedience. It is absolutely stunning that Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to go door to door to raise doubts and show anyone who will listen what is wrong with their faith and religion, yet teach that their own membership cannot in any way do the same thing. How stunningly hypocritcal to ban what they ask the public at large to do: Learn about your faith from independent (read: non JW) sources. Why? Because they have so much to hide.

Why are JW's strongly discouraged to question their own faith? After all, if they have the truth, it will be able to stand up to any argument...

But no, there are different standards for those on the inside than there are for those on the outside. Here are two contradictory hypocritical statements:

***truth book,chap.2p.13par.5Why It Is Wise to Examine Your Religion***
“We need to examine…what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated… If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.”

***w863/15p.12par.7'Do Not Be Quickly Shaken From Your Reason'***
“You may even reason: …' if we have the truth, we have nothing to fear...' In thinking this way, some have fed their minds upon apostate reasoning and have fallen prey to serious questioning and doubt.”

34

CoC and Search of Christian Freedom came yesterday in the mail

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

time to swallow the red pill.. right now both books remain unopened - sealed in the amazon.com box buried in a backpack in the trunk of my car.

i feel like i'm smuggling drugs or something.. i'll be starting coc tomorrow ... .

this is more of a vanity post than anything.

LUKEWARM

Excellent post willlowman and very true!!

For any lurkers out there, these 2 books are a must read and can even be purchased in PDF format from:

http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html

It is seldom mentioned, but one of the many great things about Ray's book is the title, itself. He had a crisis of conscience. In other words, his conscience would no longer permit him to keep on doing what he was doing so he HAD to quit.

That describes my own journey out of the org. I was really "wired" for many years, elder, special assignments, talks and parts at conventions and assemblies -- where I usually sat in the glass enclosed private rooms on the upper tiers with my "administration" badge on my lapel, sipping gourmet coffee and sending out for "real" food instead of hoagies and burritos from food service (you just had to be on a "special diet" and no one gave it a second thought -- they were going out for lunch anyway).

I got to the point I couldn't give a 10 minute part of the service meeting without altering the material to eliminate the bullsh%@. That's when I realized my conscience was telling me to take a hike.

This is why the WTS just HATES Ray, and loathes his book. He makes it clear that the truly conscientious ones are those who leave. Think about all the posters on this forum we've gotten to know who left, not because of pride, arrogance, or immorality, but because their CONSCIENCE drove them out of the Watchtower. We're called apostates, but the real apostates are back in Bethyl, running the show, and in the congregations, taking orders and passing out the intellectual Kool Aid.

183

How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

by Lady Liberty in

hi everyone.... just curious how many of you knew when you were active, about the societys official teaching regarding jesus the mediator.

i was floored to find in my research, that they teach jesus is the mediator for the 144,000 only.

and it is only by our association with them that we might have salvation.. i don't know about you guys but i was blown away when i learned they taught this.

LUKEWARM

I had no idea until I read it on here about 12 months ago and then researched the WTS publications directly ;(

3

Can anyone make sense of this? I am trying a new method to circumvent Cognitive Dissonance

by BonaFide in

this is what happened to me a few minutes ago as i came home.

i live in a almost 100% jw apartment complex, so i have a lot of contacts with witnesses every day, apart from meetings and service.. so i have been trying with a few friends to use a "third person" that doesn't exist, to try and get them to reason.. here an example of what happened today outside my apartment:.

friend: "hey bonafide, what's going on?

LUKEWARM

I like it Bonafide!

Are you still in for family reasons??

How much longer are you planning to be an active witness?

8

Last night conversation with wifey

by winstonchurchill in

jw
friends

she commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week).

i went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.. we were having dinner.

after a pause i asked her: "if i can eat potato, and i can eat beets, and i can eat carrots... then why can't i eat the whole salad?

LUKEWARM

Interesting conversation winstonchurchill...

Search "white blood cells in breastmilk" on Google, where you are likely to find many references saying that 1 drop of breast milk contains around one million white blood cells or leukocytes, that fight infection and activate other defence mechanisms.

Perhaps you can then use this info to further the conversation: Why can JW not have white blood cells transfused when God has this process already happening in nature??

Printing out the Jensen blood letters for her might be good too (an elder corresponding with the WTS over 5 years on the blood issue) You can find the info towards the bottom of this page

http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml

Best wishes in getting through to her

Lukewarm

34

Some things really ticked me off at the meeting last night...

by wantarevolution in

jw
friends

...aside from the snooze fest that was the "bible study", taken by a brother who was 5 minutes late - went 10 minutes over and obiously hadn't prepared shit for the meeting (this is the same brother that "encouraged" me to be 15 minutes early for all meetings to welcome people).

1) i had the no3 talk, about "christians helping the poor", no source material or anything.

i played it good, spoke about our duty to be good christians, and charitable to everyone, and how it is a conscience matter as to how we donate our money or charitable deeds.i even used a quote by mother theresa.

LUKEWARM

Well done! They need to be reminded that Jesus did more than preach....

1) i had the nº3 talk, about "christians helping the poor", no source material or anything. I played it good, spoke about our duty to be good christians, and charitable to everyone, and how it is a conscience matter as to how we donate our money or charitable deeds.I even used a quote by mother theresa

19

Any Change on YMCA Policy?

by bavman in

i had heard recently the wtbs may have changed their policy on the ymca.

it would be helpful to me personally if they have.

i did know of a couple of people in my last congregation who went but i also heard some elders talking against it.

LUKEWARM

The hypocrisy is incredible here!

The average JW cannot join the YMCA to use the gym, sauna or pool because the WBTS say membership would indicate the support of all the YMCA agenda, not just part.

At the same time, when the WBTS is a non-govermental member of the OSCE (an organization whose activities include, arms control, free elections, democratization, etc ect) this is OK???

One standard for the average JW and another for them. According to the WBTS reasoning, their membership indicates support of all the OSCE goals, which are obviously political and militaristic!!! What happened to being no part of the world??

Organization: http://www.osce.org/

Activities: http://www.osce.org/activities/

WBTS non-govermental membership - Pages 43, 49, 63, 65, 71 http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2008/10/34254_en.pdf

42

Blinders Are Really Starting to Come Off Hubby!!!

by cognac in

jw
friends

it actually all started a bit stronger when mj died.

he loves his music and curiousity got the better of him and he started to google everything about him and jws.

he was also watching a lot of youtube videos.

LUKEWARM

Great read Cognac - "keeping up with the program" is a loving thing to put up with from your perspective as you give him time to come to grasp the reality of the situation.

Have you mentioned Ray Franz to him? This usually arouses the curiosity of JW's I have later given the book to, and I'm sure reading the 2 books will accelerate his new learning's...

Much patience is required to keep chipping away and deconstructing things that years of indoctrination have built up

But he is lucky to have you help him - Best wishes to you

44

Question: Why was it ok to sell unbled meat to a foriegner for them to eat?

by Lady Liberty in

hello all... ok, i have a question for any takers: deuteronomy 14:21 says this:.

21 "you must not eat any body [already] dead.

so, it is obvious that this is why they could not eat a animal that they found that had died, say from natural causes.

LUKEWARM

Truly sad that so many have died and will continue to do so because the WBTS lacks the humility to correct their interpretation of scripture on this matter.

They keep talking about bloodguilt, yet fail to see how accountable they are for the unnecessary death of so many people.

*** The scriptures in both the Hebrew and Greek sections of the bible, which say: "blood must be drained out" and to, "abstain from... blood" were always referring directly to the eating or drinking of animal blood. The blood of the animal that had been killed was to be "poured out" rather than eaten or drank. This token act of faith demonstrated to Jehovah that the life that had been taken belongs to him. The blood of the animal represents the life of that animal. Humans do have the right to take animals for food only because the creator allows us to do so. Pouring out the blood first, acknowledges this arrangement. By including modern day blood transfusions in the current application of these verses however (which is not the same as eating or drinking of animal blood), the society is going beyond what is actually written in its application. In addition, the one supplying the blood for a transfusion has not died at all, which was always the case when an animal was bled. A "living" donor instead provides the needed volume of blood-fluid that has been lost for another "living" individual. And in many cases over the years, as a last resort this has been and can still be a life-saving medical act. In other cases by refusing this particular medical treatment because of our stand against blood transfusions, lives have been and will continue to be lost. Is this what Jehovah wants, and is this premature loss of life really necessary? -Paragraph taken from this letter http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html

They are just like the Pharisees Jesus spoke about when he said: "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.' 8 Letting go the commandment of God, YOU hold fast the tradition of men." (Mark 7:7-8)

52

"This Good News of the Kingdom" is NOT Jesus' Gospel

by Farkel in

the wts and dubs like to brag that, unlike all other religions, they are the only people preaching the truth about "this good news of the kingdom" on earth.

they claim that their most important purpose in life and as dubs is to preach that good news.. .

they use their favorite verses in matthew 24:14 and revelation 21:3,4 to describe what that "good news of the kingdom" means.

LUKEWARM

Brilliant thread!!