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LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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19
The Watchtower & Logical Fallacies (Long)
by darkl1ght3r in- w86 7/15 p. 20 par.
3 p. 37 par.
- w86 7/15 p. 10 par.
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15
Disfellowshipped Relatives & The Scriptures & Manmade Rules
by minimus ini think the stupidest rule regarding disfellowshipped ones has to be regarding if a relative lives in the home of a jw or not.
where in the bible does it say that you can talk and not shun a df'd person if they live in your home but if they don't live there, you have to avoid them and treat them as dead?.
the organization decides if a df'd person could live within the home.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv pp. 208-209 How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person ***
What if a relative is disfellowshipped? In such a case, the close bond between family members can pose a real test of loyalty. How should we treat a disfellowshipped relative? We cannot here cover every situation that may arise, but let us focus on two basic ones.
In some instances, the disfellowshipped family member may still be living in the same home as part of the immediate household. Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue. Yet, by his course, the individual has chosen to break the spiritual bond between him and his believing family. So loyal family members can no longer have spiritual fellowship with him. For example, if the disfellowshipped one is present, he would not participate when the family gets together to study the Bible. However, if the disfellowshipped one is a minor child, the parents are still responsible to instruct and discipline him. Hence, loving parents may arrange to conduct a Bible study with the child.-Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17.
In other cases, the disfellowshipped relative may be living outside the immediate family circle and home. Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum. Loyal Christian family members do not look for excuses to have dealings with a disfellowshipped relative not living at home. Rather, loyalty to Jehovah and his organization moves them to uphold the Scriptural arrangement of disfellowshipping. Their loyal course has the best interests of the wrongdoer at heart and may help him to benefit from the discipline received.-Hebrews 12:11.Was thinking about this the other day - I always thought it was dumb not to try and have "spiritual fellowship" and help your own to "come back to Jah".
The more I think about it now, the WTS "command of men" makes sense because it prevents awareness of their dirty laundry and is an effective mechanism to stem the problem of declining membership.
It's all part of the bigger agenda to control information and prevent members in good standing from realising the truth about the truth.
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100
WTS attends as a NGO to OSCE in July- 4 branches present!
by yknot inso i was just cruising www.extj.com/foro.
mary received a interesting bit of osce information via a brother (peter) from germany....... http://www.extj.com/foro/showthread.php?t=14643.
here is the pdf she has uploaded..... http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2009/07/38763_en.pdf.
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LUKEWARM
If the only pool in town is the YMCA and I want to swim, I don't see how having a YMCA pool pass makes me an endorser of false religions. Why is the average JW disfellowshipped for having a YMCA card?
Yes, the hypocrisy is incredible here!
The average JW cannot join the YMCA to use the gym, sauna or pool because the WBTS say membership would indicate the support of all the YMCA agenda, not just part.
At the same time, when the WBTS is a non-govermental member of the OSCE (an organization whose activities include, arms control, free elections, democratization, etc ect) this is OK???
One standard for the average JW and another for them. According to the WBTS reasoning, their membership indicates support of all the OSCE goals, which are obviously political and militaristic!!! What happened to being no part of the world?? -
203
Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles
by Robert_V_Frazier ini'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board.
the claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me.
can anybody verify or falsify this claim?.
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LUKEWARM
I have known of elders restricting privileges on the basis of the statements of a supposed victim of being molested.
I was talking to an elderly anointed elder about 3 months ago after the meeting. We chatted about many things - he was telling me about his friends before he became a witness about 50 years ago...how his mates discussed various girls and particularly looked for decent girls to settle down with - not the ones that were known for their loose morals.
Anyway, I said something like that I can understand teens struggling to control their hormones but that I cannot understand people who get a kick out of molesting children - a disgusting thing that is happening even in "our" organization.
He agreed and said if he could have things his way, these individuals would not be walking around in society - suggesting they would be better dead...
I mentioned that the society should really abolish the 2 witness rule as it was not practical - when are you likely to have 2 witnesses to such abuse??
He agreed and said that they received a letter from the society recently stating that if a brother holding "privileges" in the congregation was accused of child molestation, the individual looses those privileges immediately.
If this is true it's a step in the right direction, but as others have mentioned, they need to get the authorities involved asap in the case of every single allegation. -
9
Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 17 August 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
8 pp.
86-96 god loves clean people ***.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv chap. 8 pp. 86-96 God Loves Clean People ***
CLEANSING OURSELVES OF DEFILING HABITS AND PRACTICES
Q19. To keep ourselves physically clean, what do we need to avoid, and how does the Bible help us in this regard?19 To keep ourselves physically clean, we need to avoid defiling habits and practices, such as smoking, abusing alcohol, and the nonmedical use of addictive or mind-altering substances. The Bible does not specifically name all the unclean and disgusting habits and practices that are prevalent today, but it does contain principles that enable us to perceive how Jehovah must feel about such things. Because we know Jehovah's view of matters, our love for him moves us to take the course that brings his approval. Let us consider five Scriptural principles.
"The Bible does not specifically name all the unclean and disgusting habits..." - Yet the WTS has regulated and imposed its laws even punishing non-conformity via announcements of disassociation/disfellowshipping. Where is the allowance for individuals to exercise their conscience based on "principles" contained in the Bible and make individual decisions?
"...we know Jehovah's view of matters..." - Does this relate to the doctrine they are teaching currently? Do all disagreements with WTS current "truths" demonstrate that an individual does not know God?
Q20, 21. Jehovah wants us to be free of what type of practices, and what powerful reason do we have to comply?20 "Since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear." (2 Corinthians 7:1) Jehovah wants us to be free of practices that pollute our fleshly body and damage our spirit, or dominant mental inclination. We must therefore avoid addictive behaviors that are known to be harmful to physical and mental health.
"...be free of practices that pollute our fleshly body and damage our spirit" - Does that include caffeine intake? What about not being in a healthy relationship, the lack of sleep, eating junk food, stress etc?21 The Bible gives a powerful reason for us to "cleanse ourselves of every defilement." Notice that 2 Corinthians 7:1 begins by saying: "Since we have these promises." What promises? As mentioned in the preceding verses, Jehovah promises: "I will take you in. And I shall be a father to you." (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18) Just imagine: Jehovah promises to put you under his protective care and to love you as a father does a son or a daughter. But Jehovah will fulfill these promises only if you avoid defilements of "flesh and spirit." How foolish it would be, then, to allow any disgusting habit or practice to rob you of such a precious and close relationship with Jehovah!
"...any disgusting habit..." - Why not elaborate what they are?
"Jehovah promises: "I will take you in. And I shall be a father to you." (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18)" - According to WTS doctrine, the great crowd are FRIENDS of God NOT sons. They also say New Testament is written for the anointed, so how does this apply to the majority that will be present in the consideration of this study?
How can the great crowd have a "close relationship with Jehovah" when they are told that they cannot even have a relationship with Jesus because he is not their mediator?
Q22-25. What Scriptural principles can help us to avoid unclean habits and practices?22 "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind." (Matthew 22:37) Jesus singled out this commandment as the greatest of all. (Matthew 22:38) Jehovah deserves such love from us. To love him with our whole heart, soul, and mind, we must avoid practices that could shorten our life or dull our God-given thinking abilities.
"Jesus singled out this commandment as the greatest of all." So why has the WTS burdened jw's with hundreds of additional laws? Are they equally as important or are they just traditions of men?
"...avoid practices that could shorten our life..." - What are these exactly? Do they include mountain climbing, driving on the autobahn, parachuting??
23 "[Jehovah] gives to all persons life and breath and all things." (Acts 17:24, 25) Life is a gift from God. We love the Giver, so we want to show respect for the gift. We shun any habits or practices that are detrimental to our health, for we recognize that such practices show a gross disrespect for the gift of life.-Psalm 36:9.
"We shun any habits or practices that are detrimental to our health" - What are they? Is the consumption of soft drinks one of them considering you are more likely to get diabetes?
24 "You must love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 22:39) Unclean habits and practices often affect not only the practicer but also those around him. For example, exposure to secondhand smoke can have a harmful effect on nonsmokers. An individual who hurts those around him is violating the divine requirement that we love our neighbor. He also belies any claim that he loves God.-1 John 4:20, 21.
"An individual who hurts those around him is violating the divine requirement that we love our neighbor" - How much hurt and pain is being caused by the WTS in enforcing its shunning/disfelowshipping policy? How many spent time in jail because the WTS said they could not do civilian service? How many people have been hurt due to the premature loss of a loved one because of the WTS doctrine of NO Blood, and how many have died unnecessarily?
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php25 "Be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers." (Titus 3:1) In many lands, the possession or use of certain drugs is a violation of the law. As true Christians, we do not possess or use illegal drugs.-Romans 13:1.
"Be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers." (Titus 3:1) - What they mean is relative subjection to the law of the land but absolute subjection to WTS
Q26. (a) To remain in God's love, what do we need to do? (b) Why is keeping clean in God's eyes the best way to live?26 To remain in God's love, we need to keep clean, not just in one or two respects but in all respects. Abandoning and keeping clear of defiling habits and practices may not be easy, but it is possible. Really, there is no better way to live, for Jehovah always teaches us to benefit ourselves. (Isaiah 48:17) Most important, by keeping clean we can have the satisfaction that comes from knowing that we are reflecting favorably on the God we love, thereby remaining in his love.
"...reflecting favorably on the God we love" or reflecting favorably on the WTS conscience of what a member of their religion should look like?
[Box/Picture on page 94]
DO I FIGHT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT?
Principle: "I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow."-1 Corinthians 9:27.
Some questions to ask yourself
- When I first feel the urge to engage in some defiling habit, do I pray for God's spirit to help me resist the impulse?-Matthew 6:13.
- How do the people I associate with, the movies I watch, and the music I listen to affect my determination to remain free from bad habits?-1 Peter 4:3, 4.
- Why does performing good works not justify sinful conduct?-Matthew 23:25-28.
- Why am I willing to suffer in the same way that Jesus suffered for doing God's will?-1 Peter 2:21; 4:1.
- How would I explain to someone why I choose not to smoke?-Romans 12:1, 2.
- Do I realize that having a relapse with regard to some unclean practice does not mean that I am a complete failure?-Romans 7:21-25.
[Box on page 96]
"WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE"
"At age 15," says Helen, "I was smoking cigarettes every day and drinking alcohol with my friends on weekends. Later, although I was now a single mother with three children, I became addicted to crack cocaine. My life was a mess. However, I started studying the Bible, and with Jehovah's help, I cleaned up my life and broke free from my addictions. It was a real struggle, especially to give up using cocaine. I think it would have been impossible for me to make these changes on my own. But now I can truly say that in my life, I have seen proof of Jesus' words: 'With God all things are possible.'"-Matthew 19:26.[Footnote]
Name has been changed. -
51
The Faithful Steward and it's Governing Body
by Mickey mouse inthis will be studied in two weeks time but it's such a special .
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LUKEWARM
So the Governing Body represents the "faithful and discreet slave" and 7 million people need to "cooperate fully with the arrangements" and "appreciate the spiritual food produced".
Nobody is allowed to question the GB because you are questioning God himself! And how could any mere human question God?
Can anyone spot the fatal flaw in their argument? -
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If you think the JW's are correct on Blood don't read
by skyman inif anyone can disprove my conclussions please send me a letter in my inbox, or if you can think of other points please drop me a line.
feel free to copy and use part or all of this letter.
i started my biblical sereach after i was asked by a brother in my book study group why we could use fraction that was taken from coagulated blood, but can not auto-transfuse {store our own blood for later use} becasue the blood coagulates and then must be poured out onto the ground.
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LUKEWARM
Skyman,
Thank you for posting that awesome letter!
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How Does the Governing Body Extend its Control Over the Many Organizations?
by frankiespeakin inhow does the governing body extend its control over the many organizations that they made back in the year 2000 ?.
i think they have some type of by-laws in these corparations where they are to be in subjection to the wishes of the gb.. also thier may be some stipulations that the controlling members of each seperate corperation must be in good standing and can not function in any capacity if they are disfellowshipped.
thus the gb can alway use thier unlimited power to df to bring members in line or remove them if the gb feel threated.. i would think that the by-laws of these seperate entities are somewhat similar to the by-laws that form the congregation corperations in order for the congregation to be a legal corperation that can own property, where the by-laws state that they must remain in subjection to the gb.
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LUKEWARM
Fascinating comments on this thread by JT...
JT said:
let me explain to you how it works, when the wt created the new corps on , they announced at the annual meeting who the officers were and the board of directors were of each corp,
WHO DO YOU THINK HAND PICKED BOTH THE OFFICERS AND BOARD OF DIRECTORS???
IN ORDER to accomplish what you are talking bout would require a tremendous amount of collusion- and consider, none of them can access the money, of the org- so which would appeal to them more\
you got the president of one of the corp who tries to convince a VP to join him in trying to take over, now they need the agreement of all the officers and the board-now as aVP which would be easier and more rewarding- one try to stage a coup or walk down the hall and tell the GB that frank is trying to over take the Kiingdom Farm corp?
and then next week Frank is back in NC with no job, and dfed no friends or help and you are promoted to President of Kingdom farm due to your loyalty for jah and his earthly org and next week you and your wife are sent to Japan, Korea and Hawaii to chk up on the branches for 4 weeks and to give 4 talks and lots and lots of Green handshakes
now you tell me which is more likely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JT said:
let me break it down for you, how long have you been a jw? how many resolutions have you seen where 1% of the congregation voted differently than the elders
you need to understand and i asked my fellow elder who is a voting member how the votes go down
500 to 0 for all officers every year since he has been voting and he has been voting since the 70's
can you imagine what would happen to 10 CO 7 DO and 3 Branch members who voted differently in oct-they would be reassigned back to the reg pioneer work in Novemvber, which means after 30+yrs of being taken care of by the org, they now got to get a JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so what do you think is the likely hood of some revolt at that level in the org, when every single man who is voting is dependant on staying in the goood graces of the very men they must vote for thru the USA legal system of corp structure -
43
KM tells JW's "...to avoid representing themselves as agents or representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society..."
by LUKEWARM in*** km 2/89 pp.
3-4 our identification as jehovah's witnesses ***.
as ministers of the good news, we are known publicly as jehovah's witnesses.
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LUKEWARM
Yes, it's all about their legal liability!
Does anyone know where I can find information on the court case in South Australia, where a JW sued his KH and the WTS after he broke his leg in field service?
From memory, it involved his trespassing on private property, being knocked over by a goat, the homeowner being sued and hving to pay damages to the JW, and the WTS defending itself and the KH with the statement that JW's are NOT required to go out in field service and that the ministry work is purely voluntary... -
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KM tells JW's "...to avoid representing themselves as agents or representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society..."
by LUKEWARM in*** km 2/89 pp.
3-4 our identification as jehovah's witnesses ***.
as ministers of the good news, we are known publicly as jehovah's witnesses.
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LUKEWARM
*** km 2/89 pp. 3-4 Our Identification as Jehovah's Witnesses ***
As ministers of the good news, we are known publicly as Jehovah's Witnesses. Our voluntary participation in the field service is motivated by love of God and neighbor. It is not carried on at the insistence of any man or organization but is according to our God-given commission to preach the "good news" and make disciples. (Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20) Therefore, publishers do well to avoid representing themselves as agents or representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., or any other corporation used by "the faithful and discreet slave" to advance Kingdom interests.-Matt. 24:45-47.
In case of an accident or an emergency or if problems are encountered while working trailer parks, apartments, or certain other territory, publishers may need some form of personal identification beyond giving their name along with a brief Scriptural explanation of the nature of our religious work. If questioned, or when asked for credentials, baptized publishers may use the identification card (S-65) signed by the presiding overseer, which shows one is preaching the good news of the Kingdom in association with the local congregation named on the card.
A supply of identification cards (S-65), which may be issued to baptized publishers when there is a need, will be included with the annual shipment of congregation forms. If any publishers use a personal name card in connection with their field service activities, they should not print thereon that they are representatives of the Watchtower Society.So use their magazines, advance their teachings but don't identify as representing them??