Posts by LUKEWARM

*** lv chap. 11 pp. 121-132 "Let Marriage Be Honorable" ***

"Rejoice with the wife of your youth."-PROVERBS 5:18.

Q1, 2. What question will we consider, and why?ARE you married? If so, is your marriage a source of happiness, or are you experiencing serious marital problems? Have you and your spouse drifted apart? Are you enduring married life but not enjoying it? If so, you likely feel sad that the warm marital bond you once enjoyed has cooled. As a Christian, you surely would like your marriage to bring glory to Jehovah, the God you love. Hence, your present circumstances may well be a source of concern and heartache to you. Even so, please do not conclude that your situation is hopeless.

Why do they always focus on the negatives - "serious marital problems", "drifted apart" "not enjoying it", "feel sad" - are witness marriages unhappy?

2 Today, there are fine Christian couples who once had marriages that were merely surviving, not thriving. Yet, they found a way to strengthen their relationship. You too can find more contentment in your marriage. How?

DRAWING CLOSER TO GOD AND TO YOUR SPOUSE

Q3, 4. Why will marriage mates draw closer together if they strive to draw closer to God? Illustrate.3 You and your spouse will draw closer together if you strive to draw closer to God. Why? Consider an illustration: Imagine a cone-shaped mountain-wide at the base and narrow at the top. A man is standing at the foot of the northern slope while a woman is standing on the other side, at the foot of the southern slope. Both begin to climb. When both are still near the mountain base, a long distance separates them. Yet, as each climbs higher and higher toward the narrow summit, the distance between them becomes less and less. Do you see the reassuring lesson in this illustration?

Seriously, I wonder which genius concocted this illustration?
4 The effort you put forth to serve Jehovah to the full could be compared with the effort it takes to climb a mountain. Since you love Jehovah, you are already trying hard to climb, so to speak. However, if you and your spouse have grown apart, you may be climbing opposite sides of that mountain. What happens, though, when you continue to climb? Granted, a considerable distance may separate you at first. Nevertheless, the more effort you put into drawing closer to God-into climbing higher-the closer you and your mate become. Indeed, drawing closer to God is the key to drawing closer to your spouse. But how can you actually do that?

What does "serve Jehovah to the full" mean?

"love Jehovah" is demonstrated by following the dictates of the WTS?

"...you are already trying hard" - is the WTS indirectly admitting that their "commands of men" make worshipping God hard?

Why is an illustration about serving God linked to the strenuous effort in climbing a mountain? Didn't Jesus teach that his yoke was light and refreshing and doesn't the Bible say that Gods commands are not burdensome?
Q5. (a) What is one way to draw closer to Jehovah and to one's marriage mate? (b) How does Jehovah view marriage?5 One important way to climb, as it were, is for you and your spouse to heed the counsel on marriage as found in God's Word. (Psalm 25:4; Isaiah 48:17, 18) Consider, therefore, a specific point of counsel stated by the apostle Paul. He said: "Let marriage be honorable among all." (Hebrews 13:4) What does that mean? The word "honorable" implies that something is esteemed and precious. And that is exactly how Jehovah views marriage-he esteems it as precious.

Can "...heed the counsel on marriage as found in God's Word" be done independently of the WTS and via the exercise of personal conscience?
YOUR MOTIVATION-HEARTFELT LOVE FOR JEHOVAH

Q6. What does the context of Paul's counsel about marriage show, and why is that important to keep in mind?6 Of course, as servants of God, you and your spouse already know that marriage is precious, even sacred. Jehovah himself instituted the marriage arrangement. (Matthew 19:4-6) However, if you are currently experiencing marital problems, just knowing that marriage is honorable may not be enough to motivate you and your mate to treat each other with love and respect. What, then, will move you to do so? Note carefully how Paul addressed the subject of showing honor. He did not say, "marriage is honorable"; rather, he said, "let marriage be honorable." Paul was not merely making an observation; he was giving an exhortation. Keeping that distinction in mind may help you find added motivation for rekindling esteem for your spouse. Why is that the case?

Are "...servants of God" only JW's?

Why did Jesus not use the name "Jehovah" in Matthew 19:4-6?
Q 7. (a) What Scriptural commands do we carry out, and why? (b) What good results come from obedience?7 Consider for a moment how you regard other Scriptural commands, such as the commission to make disciples or the admonition to meet together for worship. (Matthew 28:19; Hebrews 10:24, 25) Granted, carrying out those commands may at times be a challenge. The people to whom you preach may respond negatively, or the secular work you do may leave you so exhausted that attending Christian meetings is a struggle. Even so, you keep on preaching the Kingdom message, and you keep on attending Christian meetings. No one can stop you-not even Satan! Why not?ecause your heartfelt love for Jehovah moves you to obey his commandments. (1 John 5:3) With what good results? Sharing in the preaching work and attending meetings gives you inner peace and heartfelt joy because you know that you are doing God's will. And those feelings, in turn, renew your strength. (Nehemiah 8:10) What is the lesson here?

How is the WTS following "the commission to make disciples" teaching them "all that I have commanded you" (all that Jesus taught as outlined in the gospels)? Why are they preaching 1914, last days, paradise earth, 144,000 etc which Jesus did not teach?

Why is the scriptural "admonition to meet together for worship" perverted, from meeting in private homes and breaking bread to the WTS imposed 2 meetings a week in kingdom halls?

"Granted, carrying out those commands may at times be a challenge" - no kidding! Their man made rules are passed on as Gods commands, just the Pharisees of old!

"No one can stop you-not even Satan! Why not? Because your heartfelt love for Jehovah moves you to obey his commandments" So when the membership cannot keep pace with your useless rules either its Satan has won or your love for God is waning. Guilting the masses again sub-consciously!

"the preaching work and attending meetings gives you inner peace and heartfelt joy because you know that you are doing God's will" is another message to pass on their man made rules as "Gods will".
Q8, 9. (a) What may move us to obey the exhortation to honor marriage, and why? (b) What two points will we now consider?8 Just as your deep love for God moves you to obey the commands to preach and to meet together despite obstacles, so your love for Jehovah can move you to obey the Scriptural exhortation to "let [your] marriage be honorable," even when that appears to be difficult. (Hebrews 13:4; Psalm 18:29; Ecclesiastes 5:4) Additionally, just as your efforts to share in preaching and in meeting together bring rich blessings from God, so your efforts to honor your marriage will be noticed and blessed by Jehovah.-1 Thessalonians 1:3; Hebrews 6:10.

More guilting by implying lack of love for God if one does not "obey the commands to preach and to meet together despite obstacles"

Reinforcing the benefits message and Gods approval sub-consciously by saying: "efforts to share in preaching and in meeting together bring rich blessings from God".
9 How, then, can you make your marriage honorable? You need to avoid behavior that will damage the marital arrangement. In addition, you need to take steps that will strengthen the marital bond.

74

I'm Still Torn About the Blood Issue

by palmtree67 in

when i left the org.

the blood issue wasn't an issue for me.

my best friend was on the blood committee for years and i could see many cases where either blood wouldn't have saved the person anyways (like when a person is in a serious car accident and their liver is in pieces), or blood actually killed the person and/or hindered recovery.. then my little nephew got leukemia.

LUKEWARM

Hi Palm,

Read the Jensen blood letters (leaked letters of elder corresponding with the WTS over 5 years on the blood issue) towards the bottom of this page: http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml

I have printed his letters out and given to a few witnesses so far with excellent results!

Thought this link may be of interest to you: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/136144/1/Question-Why-was-it-ok-to-sell-unbled-meat-to-a-foriegner-for-them-to-eat

Also, the chapter Ray Franz wrote in his second book about the blood doctrine can be accessed here: http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/4C648686-695D-48C7-ACA8-A52794ED6128_files/Search-Eng-Chap%209.2006.pdf

Lukewarm

126

MY BROTHER-IN-LAW HAS DIED

by Mary in

jw
friends

this is one post i had always hoped i would never have to do, but after a long and brave battle, my beloved brother in law has died.

i have done a couple of threads on this in the past, so many of you know the battles he was facing.

he had been diagnosed earlier this year with myelodysplastic syndrome and the mortality rate of this disease is quite high.

LUKEWARM

I am very sorry to hear that Mary - but am sure you will be an excellent support for your sister at this difficult time

8

Don't worry about H1N1, just wash your hands and cough on your sleeve says letter from Branch

by cattails in

hey you don't worry about h1n1, just wash your hands and cough on your sleeve says a recent letter from wts branch to all congregations.it's to be expected that there would be "pestilences" so why worry, right?elders were told to arrange for a special needs talk about handling the situation locally.

.

LUKEWARM

So you are saying it was read to the congregation or just posted to the elders?

Which country is this in?

13

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-27-09 WT (BOLDNESS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com.

http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php.

http://www.jehovahswitnessrecovery.com/.

LUKEWARM

Thanks Blondie - sorry to hear about your health and hope the medicine will magage & keep it contained

Q15. How does the truth divide people today?

COMMENTS

THE TRUTH divides people...some hate us (jws); target of misinformation and malicious propaganda through the media.

What misinformation and malicious propaganda?

It's frustrating that they never elaborate and deliberately mislead the membership in accepting their word - so sad that this mind control prevents the average member in investigating what others disagree with and more importantly, if there is substance to the objections and alternative arguments.

4

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 28 September 2009

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

*** lv chap.

10 pp.

110-120 marriage-a gift from a loving god ***.

LUKEWARM

*** lv chap. 10 pp. 110-120 Marriage-A Gift From a Loving God ***

Q16, 17. Those preparing for marriage should meditate on what Scriptural principles?16 Preparing for marriage involves meditating on the roles that God has assigned to husband and wife. A man needs to know what it means to be the head of a Christian household. This role is not a license to act as a tyrant. Rather, he must imitate the manner in which Jesus exercises headship. (Ephesians 5:23) Likewise, a Christian woman needs to understand the dignified role of the wife. Will she be willing to submit to "the law of her husband"? (Romans 7:2). She is already under the law of Jehovah and the Christ. (Galatians 6:2) Her husband's authority in the household represents another law. Can she be supportive and submissive when it comes to the authority of an imperfect man? If that prospect is not appealing, she does well to refrain from marrying.

Why does the Bible say that the head of every man is the Christ and not the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

"...the law of Jehovah and of Christ" and the law of the WTS makes JW's subject to 3 laws when it should only be the law of the Christ for Christians.
17 Further, each mate needs to be ready to care for the special needs of the other. (Philippians 2:4) Paul wrote: "Let each one of you individually so love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband." Under divine inspiration, Paul saw that the man has a special need to sense his wife's deep respect for him. And the woman has a special need to feel loved by her husband.-Ephesians 5:21-33.

"ready to care for the special needs of the other" - how is that completely possible when the WTS requires its members to be so busy volunteering their time for them which leaves so little time to spend with the family?
Q18. Why should couples exercise self-control during courtship?18 Courtship, then, is not merely a time to have fun. It is a time for a man and a woman to learn how to deal properly with each other, to see whether marriage would be a wise choice. It is also a time to exercise self-control! The temptation to become physically intimate can be very strong-after all, the attraction is natural. However, those who truly love each other will avoid any acts that could harm a loved one spiritually. (1 Thessalonians 4:6) So if you are courting, exercise self-control; you can benefit from that quality throughout your life, whether you marry or not.

[Picture on page 119]
During courtship, many couples wisely arrange for a chaperone

"It is a time for a man and a woman to learn how to deal properly with each other" - Well instead of having time to do this and enjoy their twenties more by going out and having fun, they are instead required to go out on in service and attend repetitive meetings.

"...any acts that could harm a loved one spiritually." - Why not elaborate on what these are exactly and when an act qualifies as loose conduct?http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/102445/1/Elders-school-notes-Part-6-The-JW-Talmud-and-Trust-Us

HOW CAN YOU MAKE A MARRIAGE LAST?
Q19, 20. How should a Christian's view of marriage differ from that of many in today's world? Illustrate.19 If a couple is to make their marriage last, they need to have the right view of commitment. In novels and movies, a marriage often provides the happy ending that people crave. In real life, though, marriage is not an ending; it is a beginning-the start of something that Jehovah designed to last. (Genesis 2:24) Sadly, that is not the common view in today's world. In some cultures, people speak of marrying as "tying the knot." They may not realize how aptly that illustration describes the common view of marriage. How so? While a good knot should hold fast as long as it is needed, another key requirement is that it can be tied and untied with ease.

Is it possible for non-jw's to "have the right view of commitment"? Do non-jw's commonly view marriage as something not "designed to last"?

"They may not realize how aptly that illustration describes the common view of marriage." - More interpretative wisdom from the institutionalized members of the WTS

20 Many today see marriage as temporary. They enter into it readily enough because they think that it will suit their needs, but they expect to be able to get out of it as soon as it seems to be challenging. Remember, though, the illustration that the Bible uses for a bond such as marriage-the cord. Cords or ropes made for sailing ships are designed to last, never to fray or unravel, even in the harshest storm. Likewise, marriage is designed to endure. Remember, Jesus said: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matthew 19:6) If you marry, you need to have the same view of marriage. Does that kind of commitment turn marriage into a burden? No.

Why is it that "many" non-jw's marriages last and are more permanent and happy that JW marriages? Does it perhaps have to do with the additional pressure and strain a relationship is under to please the WTS?

Considering "Jesus said: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart", why does the WTS teach that if one marriage mate disagrees with its interpretation of the Bible, then the other mate has grounds for separation?

Q21. A husband and wife need to maintain what attitude toward each other, and what may help them to do so?21 A husband and wife need to maintain the right view of each other. If each one strives to focus on the good qualities and efforts of the other, the marriage will be a source of joy and refreshment. Is it unrealistic to have such a positive view of an imperfect mate? Jehovah is never unrealistic, yet we count on him to maintain a positive view of us. The psalmist asked: "If errors were what you watch, O Jah, O Jehovah, who could stand?" (Psalm 130:3) Husbands and wives need to have a similarly positive and forgiving view of each other.-Colossians 3:13.

"Jehovah is never unrealistic" but the WTS frequently is...http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/84206/1/Awake-3d-college-education

Q22, 23. How did Abraham and Sarah set a good example for married people today?22 Marriage can become a greater blessing as it endures over the years. The Bible shows us the marriage of Abraham and Sarah when they were an elderly couple. Their life was by no means free of hardships and challenges. Imagine what it was like for Sarah, a woman possibly in her 60's, to leave her comfortable home in the prosperous city of Ur and take up dwelling in tents for the rest of her life. Yet, she submitted to her husband's headship. A true complement and helper to Abraham, she respectfully helped to make his decisions work. And her subjection was not superficial. Even "inside herself," she referred to her husband as her lord. (Genesis 18:12; 1 Peter 3:6) Her respect for Abraham came from the heart.

So Sarah "possibly in her 60's" was asked lived in a "comfortable home in the prosperous city". Does the WTS approve of its members to enjoying their retirement in this way?

Sarah "submitted to her husband's headship" when they needed to move to another location because Gods directly told him to do so - Are the WTS requirements imposed on husbands to be viewed in the same manner?

Should Christian wives refer to their husbands as "lord"?
23 Of course, that does not mean that Abraham and Sarah always saw things the same way. She once made a suggestion that was "very displeasing" to Abraham. Still, at Jehovah's direction, Abraham humbly listened to the voice of his wife, which turned out to be a blessing to the family. (Genesis 21:9-13) Husbands and wives today, even those married for decades, can learn much from this godly couple.

Q24. What kind of marriages reflect well on Jehovah God, and why?24. In the Christian congregation, there are many thousands of happy marriages - marriages in which the wife deeply respects her husband, the husband loves and honors his wife, and both work together to put the doing of Jehovah's will first in all things. If you decide to marry, may you choose your mate wisely, prepare well for marriage, and work at a peaceful, loving marriage that brings honor to Jehovah God. In that case, your marriage will certainly help you to remain in God's love.

"Christian congregation" = Only JW's?

"In the Christian congregation, there are many thousands of happy marriages" - is it possible for them to comprehend that there are millions of non-JW marriages which are happy and enduring?

"...doing of Jehovah's will first in all things" means attending all the meetings, 8 hours a month in field service, not celebrating birthdays, donating to the worldwide work etc

55

What do you think about this quote from the 2003 District Convention talk "Beware of the Voice of Strangers"?

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

[23:23] so friends, hypothetically, and i repeat, hypothetically, even if an angel were to come down here and land on this platform, today, at this moment, and to present something to us that didn't fit into the pattern of truth, what should we be ready to do?

we should be ready to say, " hold on there, that doesn't fit into the pattern, and i am not going to listen to it!

" yes, even if it were one of jehovah's angels.. .

LUKEWARM

In other words, if Jesus himself said something different than what the watchtower teaches then he is automatically wrong.

True! As one poster here put it, "if Jesus came down from heaven right now and told JW's to STOP LISTENING TO THE SOCIETY, STOP GOING TO THE MEETINGS, told them I DON'T NEED YOUR FREAKIN 10 HOURS PER MONTH! They'd just blink really fast and open up the latest issue of the WT magazine and proceed with this month's suggested presentation."

55

What do you think about this quote from the 2003 District Convention talk "Beware of the Voice of Strangers"?

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

[23:23] so friends, hypothetically, and i repeat, hypothetically, even if an angel were to come down here and land on this platform, today, at this moment, and to present something to us that didn't fit into the pattern of truth, what should we be ready to do?

we should be ready to say, " hold on there, that doesn't fit into the pattern, and i am not going to listen to it!

" yes, even if it were one of jehovah's angels.. .

LUKEWARM

[23:23] So friends, hypothetically, and I repeat, hypothetically, even if an angel were to come down here and land on this platform, today, at this moment, and to present something to us that didn't fit into the pattern of truth, what should we be ready to do? We should be ready to say, " Hold on there, that doesn't fit into the pattern, and I am not going to listen to it!" Yes, even if it were one of Jehovah's angels.The full transcript http://www.silentlambs.org/education/districttranscript2.htm

44

Ray Franz on Fear Among JWs

by compound complex in

to this day, in all countries, any persons among jehovah's witnesses who find they cannot conscientiously support fully the organization's teachings or practices live in a climate of fear, feeling they must constantly be on guard as to what they say, what they do, what they read, with whom they associate, from whom they receive letters, not feeling any sense of freedom even when among personal friends or close relatives if these are also witnesses.

as stated, in my personal experience i have had people phone who were afraid to give their name or who felt it necessary to use a fictitious name, some who even felt it necessary to take out a special post office box to be able to correspond without danger of their correspondence with me or other former witnesses being discovered.

they face a form of "hostage" situation, produced by the organization's authority.

LUKEWARM

I sincerely believe that, of all the personalities on the Governing Body during the 70's and 80's. It was Ray that God saw something special in. Something good he could use to help others.

I believe he used Ray's unique experience, personal knowledge and kind heart to free many of us trapped in this cult.

I hope and pray that Ray now looks back on the first 60 years of his life, not as a waste of time, but as a training ground for the work given to him after leaving JW's. Similiar to Moses with the Egyptians or Daniel with the Babylonians.

I owe that man a H U G E debt of thanks for the life he's had. For without his experience, my whole family would still be trapped and misreable.

Well said!