Posts by LUKEWARM

46

Anniversary of our being egged by JWS, decide to show you all the letter we sent to 200 JW families!!! Enjoy!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

i hope this letter finds you and your loved ones both happy and well.

one day, before the summer assembly, my parents informed me that they had serious doubts.

i just wanted it to go away, and for things to be the way they used to be.

LUKEWARM

Mary said: The reason most JWs accept the 607 BCE date without question is because it's easy to. Instead of actually doing the research like you did, all they are told they have to do is: 539 + 70 years = 609 BCE. Which still doesn't give you 607 BCE but what's a couple of years when your entire life is riding on it?

Thanks Mary - never realised that before!

539 = 00
540 = 01
541 = 02
542 = 03
543 = 04
544 = 05
545 = 06
546 = 07
547 = 08
548 = 09
549 = 10
550 = 11
551 = 12
552 = 13
553 = 14
554 = 15
555 = 16
556 = 17
557 = 18
558 = 19
559 = 20
560 = 21
561 = 22
562 = 23
563 = 24
564 = 25
565 = 26
566 = 27
567 = 28
568 = 29
569 = 30
570 = 31
571 = 32
572 = 33
573 = 34
574 = 35
575 = 36
576 = 37
577 = 38
578 = 39
579 = 40
580 = 41
581 = 42
582 = 43
583 = 44
584 = 45
585 = 46
586 = 47
587 = 48
588 = 49
589 = 50
590 = 51
591 = 52
592 = 53
593 = 54
594 = 55
595 = 56
596 = 57
597 = 58
598 = 59
599 = 60
600 = 61
601 = 62
602 = 63
603 = 64
604 = 65
605 = 66
606 = 67
607 = 68
608 = 69
609 = 70

31

Goodbye, Lois.....you were a good JW

by journey-on in

jw
friends

the woman was on her deathbed.

she was painfully aware that her days were coming to a close and she was feeling so many conflicting emotions that she found herself wishing it would just hurry up and be over with.

you see, she had been a jehovahs witness for her entire life.

LUKEWARM

Wow - very powerful indeed!

All those wasted opportunities reminded me of an email I received a while ago which really made me stop and think about priorities in life

*********

The older I get, the more I enjoy Saturday mornings. Perhaps it's the quiet solitude that comes with being the first to rise, or maybe it's the unbounded joy of not having to be at work. Either way, the first few hours of a Saturday morning are most enjoyable.

A few weeks ago, I was shuffling toward the basement ham-shack with a steaming cup of coffee in one hand and the morning paper in the other. What began as a typical Saturday morning turned into one of those lessons that life seems to hand you from time to time. Let me tell you about it:

I turned the dial up into the phone portion of the band on my ham radio in order to listen to a Saturday morning swap net. Along the way, I came across an older sounding chap, with a tremendous signal and a golden voice. You know the kind; he sounded like he should be in the broadcasting business. He was telling whom-ever he was talking with something about "a thousand marbles." I was intrigued and stopped to listen to what he had to say.

"Well, Tom, it sure sounds like you're busy with your job. I'm sure they pay you well but it's a shame you have to be away from home and your family so much. Hard to believe a young fellow should have to work sixty or seventy hours a week to make ends meet. It's too bad you missed your daughter's "dance recital" he continued. "Let me tell you something that has helped me keep my own priorities."

And that's when he began to explain his theory of a "thousand marbles."

"You see, I sat down one day and did a little arithmetic. The average person lives about seventy-five years. I know, some live more and some live less, but on average, folks live about seventy-five years.

"Now then, I multiplied 75 times 52 and I came up with 3900, which is the number of Saturdays that the average person has in their entire lifetime. Now, stick with me, Tom, I'm getting to the important part.

"It took me until I was fifty-five years old to think about all this in any detail", he went on, "and by that time I had lived through over twenty-eight hundred Saturdays. I got to thinking that if I lived to be seventy-five, I only had about a thousand of them left to enjoy. So I went to a toy store and bought every single marble they had. I ended up having to visit three toy stores to round up 1000 marbles. I took them home and put them inside a large, clear plastic container right here in the shack next to my gear."

"Every Saturday since then, I have taken one marble out and thrown it away. I found that by watching the marbles diminish, I focused more on the really important things in life. There is nothing like watching your time here on this earth run out to help get your priorities straight."

"Now let me tell you one last thing before I sign-off with you and take my lovely wife out for breakfast. This morning, I took the very last marble out of the container. I figure that if I make it until next Saturday then I have been given a little extra time. And the one thing we can all use is a little more time."

"It was nice to meet you Tom, I hope you spend more time with your family, and I hope to meet you again here on the band. This is a 75 Year old Man, K9NZQ, clear and going QRT, good morning!"

You could have heard a pin drop on the band when this fellow signed off. I guess he gave us all a lot to think about. I had planned to work on the antenna that morning, and then I was going to meet up with a few hams to work on the next club newsletter.

Instead, I went upstairs and woke my wife up with a kiss. "C'mon honey, I'm taking you and the kids to breakfast."

"What brought this on?" she asked with a smile.

"Oh, nothing special, it's just been a long time since we spent a Saturday together with the kids. And hey, can we stop at a toy store while we're out? I need to buy some marbles..."

46

Anniversary of our being egged by JWS, decide to show you all the letter we sent to 200 JW families!!! Enjoy!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

i hope this letter finds you and your loved ones both happy and well.

one day, before the summer assembly, my parents informed me that they had serious doubts.

i just wanted it to go away, and for things to be the way they used to be.

LUKEWARM

Brilliant - Thanks for posting!!

Am surprised you were not disfellowshipped for this - I suspect they were building a case to get you both as soon as this surfaced. How much time elapsed between the mailing of this letter and your Christmas sign sighting?

Did the CO or elders present any arguments supporting 607 after this?

21

Have a laugh at these cringe-worthy Watchtower interpretations. JW's must be so embarrassed.

by yadda yadda 2 in

utterly embarrassing.

how many jw's honestly believe these daft interpretations?

hard to believe these are actually held out as current truth lol.

LUKEWARM

Thanks for the list Fatfreek!

From what I can see, the 1988 Revelation book changes the dates entirely from the outbreak of WWI (28 July 1914) to early 1918…

*** re chap. 25 p. 164 par. 12 Reviving the Two Witnesses ***12 The John class had to preach this message for a definitely stated time: 1,260 days, or 42 months, the same length of time that the holy city was to be trampled underfoot. This period seems to be literal, since it is expressed in two different ways, first in months and then in days. Additionally, at the beginning of the Lord’s day, there was a marked period of three and a half years when the hard experiences of God’s people matched the events prophesied here—starting from the outbreak of the first world war in the latter part of 1914 and continuing to the early part of 1918. (Revelation 1:10) They preached a “sackcloth” message concerning Jehovah’s judgment of Christendom and the world.

14

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-20-09 WT Study (MY FRIENDS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments you will not hear at the 12-20-09 wt study (october 15, 2009, pages 13-17)(my friends).

review comments will be in red or headed by comments.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

LUKEWARM

Blondie - another brilliant analysis - your one liners are great!

This is a great example of what is wrong with the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The presumptuous arrogance of these self appointed religious leaders is so clear throughout that it staggers belief.

Rather than exult themselves, where is their application of the masters instructions:

(Matthew 23:9-12) 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called 'leaders,' for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

6

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 14 December 2009

by LUKEWARM in

*** lv chap.

14 pp.

160-163 be honest in all things ***.

LUKEWARM

*** w06 4/1 p. 4 Understanding the Bible-A Pleasure Open to You ***The Bible is the Word of God. In it God expresses his will to us. Would God provide a book that is impossible to comprehend or that is understandable only to highly educated people? No, Jehovah would not be so unkind. Christ Jesus said: "Which father is there among you who, if his son asks for a fish, will perhaps hand him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he also asks for an egg, will hand him a scorpion? Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!" (Luke 11:11-13) Thus, you can be sure that an understanding of the Bible is well within your reach and that if you ask God sincerely, he will provide the help you need to understand his Word. Why, basic Bible teachings can be grasped and appreciated even by children!-2 Timothy 3:15.*** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible-A Book Meant to Be Understood ***All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.-John 6:68.
HONESTY IN THE FAMILY

Q6. Why do marriage mates need to be honest with each other, and what dangers do they thus avoid?6 Honesty should be a hallmark of the Christian family. Husband and wife, then, must be open and honest with each other. There is no room in a Christian marriage for such hurtful, unclean practices as flirting with those outside the marriage, cultivating clandestine relationships via the Internet, or using pornography in any form. Some married Christians have taken up such wrong conduct while concealing it from an innocent mate. Doing so is dishonest. Notice the words of faithful King David: "I have not sat with men of untruth; and with those who hide what they are I do not come in." (Psalm 26:4) If you are married, never engage in conduct that might tempt you to hide what you are from your mate!

Is there no NT example for Christians? How is David - a murderer and adulterer - an example for married couples?

Q7, 8. What Bible examples can help children to learn the value of honesty?7 In teaching their children the value of honesty, parents are wise to make use of Bible examples. On the negative side, there are such accounts as that of Achan, who stole and attempted to cover his theft; Gehazi, who lied for the sake of financial gain; and Judas, who stole and lied spitefully to harm Jesus.-Joshua 6:17-19; 7:11-25; 2 Kings 5:14-16, 20-27; Matthew 26:14, 15; John 12:6.

8 On the positive side, there are such accounts as that of Jacob, who urged his sons to return money they found in their bags because he felt that it might have been put there by mistake; that of Jephthah and his daughter, who honored her father's vow at great personal sacrifice; and that of Jesus, who bravely identified himself before a vicious mob in order to fulfill prophecy and protect his friends. (Genesis 43:12; Judges 11:30-40; John 18:3-11) This partial list may give parents a taste of the riches found in God's Word that can help them teach their children to love and value honesty.

Q9. What should parents avoid if they want to set an example of honesty for their children, and why is such an example important?9 Such teaching places an important obligation on parents. The apostle Paul asked: "Do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching 'Do not steal,' do you steal?" (Romans 2:21) Some parents confuse their children by teaching about honesty while acting dishonestly themselves. They may justify petty theft

6

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 14 December 2009

by LUKEWARM in

*** lv chap.

14 pp.

160-163 be honest in all things ***.

LUKEWARM

Q9. What should parents avoid if they want to set an example of honesty for their children, and why is such an example important?9 Such teaching places an important obligation on parents. The apostle Paul asked: "Do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching 'Do not steal,' do you steal?" (Romans 2:21) Some parents confuse their children by teaching about honesty while acting dishonestly themselves. They may justify petty theft and deceptive words with such excuses as "Oh, they expect people to take these things" or "That was just a little white lie, a fib." In reality, stealing is stealing, regardless of the value of the item stolen, and lying is lying, regardless of the subject matter or the scope of the untruth. (Luke 16:10) Children are quick to detect hypocrisy and may be seriously damaged by it. (Ephesians 6:4) However, when they learn honesty from their parents' examples, they may well grow up to glorify Jehovah in this dishonest world.-Proverbs 22:6.

How is the WTS an example in this regard? They preach honesty but examples abound of hypocrisy and dishonesty.

6

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 14 December 2009

by LUKEWARM in

*** lv chap.

14 pp.

160-163 be honest in all things ***.

LUKEWARM

4 You may recall, too, that the disciple James warned: "If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man's form of worship is futile." (James 1:26) If we were to reason that we could misuse our tongue and still worship Jehovah acceptably, we would succeed only in deceiving our own heart. Our worship of Jehovah would be futile, an utter waste. What can keep us from such a sad course?

Judging by what James said, the WTS worship of God is "futile, an utter waste" because they have been misusing their tongue since 1879 - adding to the Bible, claiming to speak in the name of God but saying they are not inspired at the same time!
*** w08 12/15 p. 28 Highlights From the Letters of John and of Jude ***
Our coming to know "the truth"-the entire body of Christian teachings that has become part of the Bible-and adhering to it are essential for our salvation.-3 John 3, 4.

*** w90 10/1 p. 30 Do You Follow Instructions? ***
We should follow the instructions that the Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ, gives through "the faithful and discreet slave," the appointed channel of God's organization here on earth. (Matthew 24:45-47; Ephesians 5:23)

*** rs p. 136 False Prophets ***
Have not Jehovah's Witnesses made errors in their teachings?
Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes.
5 In that same passage, James likens the truth of God's word to a mirror. He advises us to peer into God's perfect law and make adjustments accordingly. (James 1:23-25) The Bible can help us to be honest with ourselves and to see what we need to do to improve. (Lamentations 3:40; Haggai 1:5) We may also pray to Jehovah and ask him to examine us, helping us to see and to address any serious flaws. (Psalm 139:23, 24) Dishonesty is an insidious weakness, and we need to view it as our heavenly Father does. Proverbs 3:32 says: "The devious person is a detestable thing to Jehovah, but His intimacy is with the upright ones." Jehovah can help us to feel as he does and to see ourselves as he sees us. Remember that Paul said: "We wish to conduct ourselves honestly." We cannot be perfect now, but we sincerely desire and earnestly seek to be honest.

For a JW, is it the Bible or the WTS that is the final authority?

*** w01 8/1 p. 14 par. 8 Make Your Advancement Manifest ***8 First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time"-through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions...

"Dishonesty is an insidious weakness" - If only they took their own words to heart and worked to eradicate this "weakness" the WTS would not be publishing one standard for the public and another for their members, like:
*** w06 4/1 p. 4 Understanding the Bible-A Pleasure Open to You ***The Bible is the Word of God. In it God expresses his will to us. Would God provide a book that is impossible to comprehend or that is understandable only to highly educated people? No, Jehovah would not be so unkind. Christ Jesus said: "Which father is there among you

6

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 14 December 2009

by LUKEWARM in

*** lv chap.

14 pp.

160-163 be honest in all things ***.

LUKEWARM

*** lv chap. 14 pp. 160-163 Be Honest in All Things ***

Chapter 14

Be Honest in All Things

"We wish to conduct ourselves honestly in all things."-HEBREWS 13:18.

Q1, 2. Why is Jehovah pleased when he sees our efforts to be honest? Illustrate.A MOTHER and her little boy leave a store together. Suddenly, the child stops, a look of shock on his face. In his hand he is holding a small toy that he picked up in the store. He forgot to put it back or to ask his mother if she would buy it. He cries out to her, distressed. She reassures him and takes him back into the store so that he can return the item and apologize. As he does so, the mother's heart swells with joy and pride. Why?

2 Few things delight parents more than seeing that their children are learning the importance of honesty. And so it is with our heavenly Father, "the God of truth." (Psalm 31:5) As he watches us grow to spiritual maturity, he is pleased to see us striving to be honest. Because we want to please him and remain in his love, we echo the sentiments expressed by the apostle Paul: "We wish to conduct ourselves honestly in all things." (Hebrews 13:18) Let us focus on four main areas of life in which we may at times find it a special challenge to be honest. Then we will consider some of the blessings that come as a result.

How does the WTS not have a conscience - counseling others about honesty whilst dishonestly whitewashing its own history of failed prophecy? Eg
***w93 1/15 p.5 'Caught Away to Meet the Lord'-How?***The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914

Really?

*** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 "Here Is the Bridegroom!" ***55 In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.

HONESTY WITH OURSELVES

Q3-5. (a) How does God's Word warn us about the dangers of self-deception? (b) What will help us to be honest with ourselves?3 Our first challenge is to learn to be honest with ourselves. It is very easy for us as imperfect humans to succumb to self-deception. For instance, Jesus told the Christians in Laodicea that they had fooled themselves into thinking that they were rich when, in fact, they were "poor and blind and naked" spiritually-a truly pitiable state. (Revelation 3:17) Their self-deception only made their situation more dangerous.

Self deception is an adequate description for the WTS. As Raymond Franz said, they "are victims of victims, and followers of followers." If only they could see how well Rev 3:17 describes their "truly pitiable state."
4 You may recall, too, that the disciple James warned: "If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man's form of worship is futile." (James 1:26) If we were to reason that we could misuse our tongue and still worship Jehovah acceptably, we would succeed only in deceiving our own heart. Our worship of Jehovah would be futile, an u

160

My Wife is demanding that I stop coming to this board.

by garyneal in

okay, i am in a bit of a dilemma.

since i believe in honesty between marriage mates, i have been telling my wife about this board and my participation on it.

i feel it is only right so that she won't feel like i have anything to hide.

LUKEWARM

You wife is lucky to have you Garry and is sure to benefit from your wisdom in researching the WTS.

You are to be commended too for patiently chipping away and deconstructing her unfortunate indoctrination.

Perhaps you can encourage her to be honest with herself and consider the opposing arguments - after all if the JW have the truth then their teachings will be able to stand up to the scrutiny of alternative arguments. At the very least, examining all sides will ensure she is making an informed choice to believe what the JW's teach.

Can I recommend you both read Ray Franz's two outstanding books:

(1) Crisis of Conscience, and
(2) In Search of Christian Freedom.

Both can be purchased in book form or downloadable as PDF's (for privacy) at this address:

http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html

He is a very sincere and humble man as well as a devout Christian today. He was a Jehovah's Witness Governing Body member for over nine years and his insights are simply invaluable for anybody wanting to examine the JW religion in an honest and complete light.