jabberwock

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Posts by jabberwock

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  82

  Name Game....Yeah it's Fluff

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just read our newest member's, borghater, post.

  i love the word he used, borganisation, and i wonder if we can come with some more "borg" names and words.. have at it.

  it's all in fun.. josie.

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  jabberwock

  flipper, aren't the words Borgication, Borgdultery, Borgsexuality, and Borgiality all derived from the Greek word borg'eia?

  jabberwock
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  42

  Protesting and Demonstrating at District Convention

  by jabberwock in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  has anyone who has attended a district convention this year seen any protestors or demonstrators?.

  have you ever protested or demonstrated or maybe even handed out literature at a convention or assembly?

  what happened?

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  jabberwock

  Has anyone who has attended a district convention this year seen any protestors or demonstrators?

  Have you ever protested or demonstrated or maybe even handed out literature at a convention or assembly? Do you know anyone who has?

  What happened? What was it like?

  jabberwock
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  47

  What are the Major Issues with Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's safe to say that in most instances, it appears that the catalyst for the final move away from jw's, the real start of a road toward a jw exit, is something that affected you personally, whether that was you or a loved one/family member.

  we hit our personal bs level, can't take it anymore,.

  then we start to examine the flaws of jw dogma.. i would suggest that most do not start a jw exit because they examine the dogma on a personal study project and find out that something isn't right.

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  jabberwock

  I could not help but think of how Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes say that a person may need to experience the loss of a loved one or some other tragedy, a "personal hell" if you will, before they are willing to consider the message. I think this effect is exactly what you are describing.

  Sometimes I feel that I had to become "spiritually weak" before I was able to question, doubt, and finally disbelieve. It involved serious thought, earnest prayer, and deep agonizing. Unfortunately, a Witness would see it simply as someone become weaker and weaker until they finally collapse and surrender to temptation and imperfection.

  jabberwock
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  17

  DC 2009 “NEW SONGBOOK” Details.

  by Pineapple in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val=" " /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!

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  jabberwock

  "New World" instead of "New Order"? What's the difference?

  And if I remember correctly at least some of the songs will be available online (jw.org) on September 1st as well.

  jabberwock
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  23

  What is the value of suffering?

  by jabberwock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent talk the speaker asked the question, "how will god destroy the wicked at armageddon?

  " the first and most efficient means will be to confuse them into killing one another.

  second there are the forces of nature at his disposal.

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  jabberwock

  Several people have mentioned that suffering can prove to be a learning experience and an opportunity for a person to grow. Certainly this is true, but, as LadyLee alluded to, suffering may not be strictly necessary for such learning and growth. I think we must then ask whether the sufferer is better off for having suffered.

  This does not, however, answer one of the questions from my original post:

  "When destroying the wicked at Armageddon why does Jehovah have to make them suffer at all?"

  Elsewhere understood me completely when he said, " Sounds to me like the all-powerful gawed of everything is either seriously lacking in imagination or is just cruel. Why not just make them... POOF... disappear? "

  It seems to me that it cannot be a loving God that would bring about the scenes depicted in the Watchtower illustrations of Armageddon. I wonder if Jehovah's Witnesses have a way of justifying this either in their own minds or at the door.

  jabberwock
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  56

  My experience at the District Convention today - Appreciate your comments

  by BonaFide in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know i am the one to constantly harp on this board how the organization has lost its "swagger" and the baptism and attendance is going down, and people are waking up.. not so fast.. the audience cried, i mean a lot of people cried when they played some of the songs from the new songbook.

  some had bethel singers who sounded pretty good singing them.

  so many after the program were saying how touched they were.. then the new release of the book showing how the book of acts prefigures the organization today.

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  jabberwock

  BonaFide, I know exactly what you mean. Personally, I felt that the drama was very emotionally manipulative. Do you remember the scene where David (the prodigal son) runs into the awaiting arms of his parents? I found their tearful reunion touching even though I disagreed with its message.

  I cautiously mentioned to a few people some points in the program, including the drama, that I thought were misleading, inaccurate, or manipulative, but I received little response.

  A few posters here have mentioned that conventions and assemblies are supposed to build enthusiasm and I agree. In fact, I think that having several new releases announced on the first day was meant to build the excitement that helps to distract from the inadequacies of the rest of the program.

  The convention has been over for awhile now and yet I'm still being told that "This was the best convention ever!" With no "new light" revealed or discussed and no dates or predictions to focus on I think the new releases are what was meant to stir everyone up. It will be interesting to see if this continues.

  jabberwock
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  50

  Super serious question

  by 5thGeneration in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please no sarcastic crap from mean members.. i had a family member kill herself over being raised by a c.o.

  who told her that it ruined their life and that she was a mistake.. i have a 10 page report from a psychiatrist back, who was also a jw, in the eighties that is pretty incredible.. now, i was also born jw with a 100 year "truth" heritage to cause me the same guilt.. and it may be drivng me the same way.

  i feel the same way my aunt felt.

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  jabberwock

  Don't wait to find the right book. Make an appointment with a mental health professional as soon as possible. They are professionals with years of training and experience. You don't need to find someone who specifically deals with cults.

  Despite what you may have heard, mental health professionals are very good at what they do. Remember that you can trust them because they want to help you and they have no other secret motives or hidden agendas. They will not judge you. They respect your privacy and will carefully guard it.

  Some well-meaning, but misguided, friends or family members may try to discourage you from seeking help. You must ignore them.

  You may find yourself making excuses for not seeking help from a professional or you may feel that it won't make a difference for you. You must work past these feelings and seek help anyway.

  This forum does have a lot of experiences and can provide support, but it is not enough by itself. We are not professionals and, for the most part, we are experienced only with ourselves.

  Like GoddessRachel said you can get over these feelings and you can feel happier with your life.

  We all hope that do.

  jabberwock
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  9

  District Convention Requests

  by nbernat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm going to be invading the international convention in sd this week if anyone has any requests, i'll be glad to do my best to meet them.

  books, recordings, video, notes on talks, pictures, etc.

  it'll give me something to do..

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  jabberwock

  I know that recording the program has been mentioned on other threads, but I would particularly appreciate it if you could record the drama. I posted a big long synopsis of it, but there was so much I couldn't include.

  Also, some of the new songs will be played (both orchestral and choral arrangements) at some point during the talk announcing the new song book (last talk on Friday). If you could record these too I'm sure everyone here would be interested in hearing them.

  Thanks,

  jabberwock
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  88

  British Sociologist Predicts Possible Collapse in Jehovah's Witness Numbers

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a newly published article by british sociologist david voas argues jehovah's witnesses may be about to experience a collapse in numbers.

  contrary to claims by american sociologist rodney stark who predicts strong future growth for jehovah's witnesses, voas shows that jehovah's witnesses' efforts at recruiting new members have become increasingly unsuccessful over the past few decades: the rate of increase has steadily declined, and the number of hours each publisher must preach to produce an extra convert has gone up substantially.

  voas suggests a reason for the stagnation may be that there is a natural limit to the number of people in a given population that are susceptible to conversion to sectarian groups like jehovah's witnesses - the 'carrying capacity' of the population, and that the limit has largely been reached.

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  jabberwock

  B the X, you make several good points about the foreign language field. The challenges you mention (cultural barriers, language learning difficulty) are not insignificant, but I still think that the foreign language field may prove to be more effective in getting converts. Do you think that increased activity in foreign language preaching will result in a boost to the overall numbers (Bible studies, publishers) or will it backfire?

  As far as the effect that joining a foreign language congregation has on the individual Witness I agree that it is indeed "a mixed bag". Do you think that the people who leave foreign language groups feel worse than they did before they joined? If so perhaps it would be better not to encourage people looking for something new and exciting to join them in the first place.

  By the way, I would be interested in hearing more about your experience in a foreign language congregation. What language were you learning? Maybe you could send me a PM with some details.

  jabberwock
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  23

  What is the value of suffering?

  by jabberwock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent talk the speaker asked the question, "how will god destroy the wicked at armageddon?

  " the first and most efficient means will be to confuse them into killing one another.

  second there are the forces of nature at his disposal.

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  jabberwock

  During today's Watchtower study there was a point involving Jesus' suffering:

  (3) Jehovah rewarded Jesus with something that his Son did not have in his prehuman existence--indestructible life in heaven. (Heb. 7:15-17, 28) Jehovah was pleased to do this because Jesus had kept perfect integrity under severe tests.Jesus thereby provided his Father with the best, yes the complete, answer to Satan's lie that humans serve God with selfish motives and not out of unbreakable love.--Prov.27:11.

  According to this article Jesus' suffering served a separate purpose from providing the ransom sacrifice. It seems that suffering served to test Jesus' motives for serving God and thus provide an "answer to Satan's lie that humans serve God with selfish motives and not out of unbreakable love."

  I don't understand why Jesus example is considered "the complete" answer. Didn't Job, an imperfect man ignorant of the circumstances of his trials, suffer under incredibly harsh tests of his faith and prove faithful nonetheless?

  Note the following quote from the 1975 book, "Man’s Salvation Out of World Distress at Hand!":

  However, the issue was not settled with Job...The question now was, not just, Who among mankind will adhere to Jehovah’s universal sovereignty, but, more critically, Who in heaven will keep integrity toward the Most High God and remain loyal and faithful to His universal sovereignty as the right thing for all creation?...For this reason, the paramount issue reached as high up as to the foremost heavenly son of God, Jehovah’s chief official, “the firstborn of all creation...Above all other creations of Jehovah God, this highest official of God needed to be tested and proved on this issue of unselfish devotion to Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. Till Job’s time and for more than fifteen centuries afterward he had kept his integrity to his heavenly Father Jehovah. He had conducted himself faultlessly as his Father’s principal official, The Word. Ah, yes, but that was without suffering bodily pain, that was without undergoing the deepest humiliation and undeserved dishonor.” But now, let this highly honored and respected official of God experience such adverse things here on earth—at the hands of Satan the Devil—and then let us see whether he will keep his integrity to God and remain submissive to His universal sovereignty! Logically, that was Satan’s line of reasoning.

  This confirms what I surmised from today's Watchtower article. In fact, it goes further by implying that suffering bodily pain was actually a significant part of Jesus coming to earth. And no one, not even the most loyal of Jehovah's servants, is exempt from further proving their loyalty in the face of Satan's challenge through physical bodily pain. It seems more than a bit strange to me that Jehovah would accept that Jesus, a spirit creature, needed to take on a human body, a form that he never intended spirit creatures to take, and suffer physical pain, which he never intended any creature to suffer from, in order to prove his loyalty, which Jesus had been doing perfectly for his entire existence.

  Clearly, then there is value in Jesus suffering. Suffering, specifically bodily pain, proved to be an added element for testing his loyalty to Jehovah.

  This, of course, raises more questions than it answers. The foremost I believe is, if there have already been test cases involving both perfect and imperfect humans as well as spirit creatures taking on human bodies is there any need for individuals to continue to prove their loyalty through suffering?

  I'll leave it there for now. Let me know what you think of all of this.

  jabberwock