Posts by winstonchurchill

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

winstonchurchill

And work on making it as destructive as possible for the Organization!

While I think I understand what Roberto means, I have to say this was a poor choice of words. One thing Ray Franz is outstanding for is that he has never even hinted a bit of hatred against his former organization. He has exposed the truth, and let's it stand by itself uncovering the falsehood and hypocrisy of the WTS. He has not called for jihad against JW, and to the casual reader the words quoted could sound like that.

I try not to get carried away. Is WTS pedophile policy flawed? Yes, grossly. Can we say the organization is run by "Pedophile lovers"? I think that's an exaggeration.

I'm not taking sides, much less judging, but it makes me uncomfortable when some get carried away and fall into the very same intolerance they criticize.

If you want to leave, leave. If you wanna take it up a notch and denounce what's wrong, good. But 'destructive' is not what I had in mind.

Just a thought.

208

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions regarding "attention seekers"?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

we all love it when people pay attention to us or our opinions.

but what i am talking about is people who crave and force attention from others.

not just people who talk a lot, but those that force everyone around them to focus on them and them only.. in one of my classes there is a woman who raises her hand to ask a question, but never really has a question to ask.

winstonchurchill

Hi mouthy

I will say this nicely but I do not want prayers like that said for me and my children.

But of course is OK for JW/WT people to pray for all those wicked and ignorant souls out there so they finally find the truth that Satan is hiding by keeping them blind, so they can be saved from imminent destruction!

Condescending B***!

66

If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

but i don't disavow my citizenship.

it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

winstonchurchill

Besty,

Don't know if you're married, but after so many years a lot is left unsaid, yet all is known by each other. So, yes, she knows I disagree with lots of issues. A few days ago I posted about a conversation I had with her regarding blood components/fractions; she knows how I feel regarding time keeping/reporting; also about kids not being baptized as minors, and some other issues. Sometimes I go into deep waters, and she puts up a shield.

What she definitely knows is I'm not the same I used to be in terms of being a WT soldier. She knows I'm full of doubts and for a while seemed really worried about "my spirituality". But she's come to understand that while may faith in God and my respect for the Bible are intact, I'm highly disappointed about the "organization"; and she's somehow resentful of the way I've been treated by the org.

Thanks for your interest. Probably one of the biggest downsides of staying in as a silent dissident is that I don't have a lot of friends if any.

66

If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

but i don't disavow my citizenship.

it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

winstonchurchill

Nice thread! Thanks for bringing it back Lukewarm!

Inbetween, I'm pretty much where you are. See, I was given 70 or 80 (hope 90) years to live, and have used almost half of that; wonderful parents, siblings, the best wife and adorable kids. I regret much of the time and effort I gave to WTS, but I refuse to waste more tie and effort by dealing with the DF/DA/fading, shunning crap. Why? What would I accomplish, other that losing all I have in terms of affection.

I'm thinking Family here, not "Brothers & Sisters"; those would turn their back on me in a snap; they are good people, but JWs simply lose the sense of real loyalty in friendship. After decades of 'association' I firmly believe that true and enduring friendship, the kind that resists anything, is just not possible among JW's.

So I stay in, but: I don't give WTS a dime, I have told my wife that kids will receive the best spiritual education we have available, I avoid indoctrinating them; it's like "I inform, you decide" (Can't believe I'm quoting FoxNews!). I have also made clear that they will not get baptized while young. I avoid participating in JC's unless I know I can avoid he person being DF'd. I'm seen as the 'liberal elder' (and frowned upon by some), but my 'glorious past' in the high ranks gives me an aura of power and some room for keeping militants away from me.

I don't have a clue what the future holds for me in terms of 'membership'. I decided not to worry about it. And I feel free. My wife and my kids are my life and nothing will get in the way.

208

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions regarding "attention seekers"?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

we all love it when people pay attention to us or our opinions.

but what i am talking about is people who crave and force attention from others.

not just people who talk a lot, but those that force everyone around them to focus on them and them only.. in one of my classes there is a woman who raises her hand to ask a question, but never really has a question to ask.

winstonchurchill

Just to state I was here, read the post and decided not to feed this lady's hunger for attention.

Now, back to the original question posted before it was hijacked: IGNORE attention seekers! Nothing else will work.

75

Pole, Please respond

by ldrnomo in

jw
friends

who is df'd.

who is da'd.

who is fading or faded.

winstonchurchill

Active. Elder.

Had doubts for a while. Not anymore: WTS is way off, grossly wrong on most basic issues.

89

Everybody say hi to my husband...

by cognac in

jw
friends

because we have a stinken spy on our hands!

oh, and he wants to let everyone know that he is unbreakable in the truth.

as a matter of fact, hes going out in service both saturday and sunday.

winstonchurchill

Hello!

Your wife's hot!!!

8

Last night conversation with wifey

by winstonchurchill in

jw
friends

she commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week).

i went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.. we were having dinner.

after a pause i asked her: "if i can eat potato, and i can eat beets, and i can eat carrots... then why can't i eat the whole salad?

winstonchurchill

Homeschool:

I meant that she's now quick to get jokes, hints, points. Lovely woman, but she doesn't have a quick mind when it comes to abstract thinking. She's very roted on what she 'knows' (i.e. WT teachings). But she fights back rather quickly when she sees I'm not being 100% WT-ish. She's not a weak person; on the contrary I call her the woman of steel, great character. She needs powerful and uncontestable reasons to change her mind. I think yesterday I hit a nerve.

And BTW, her salad is the BEST in the world.

57

Question

by inbetween in

just have a question,.

when you found out about things regarding the wts, maybe on the internet, on this side or another, or you had serious doubts by yourself, did you talk to somebody ?

maybe an elder or a good friend ?.

winstonchurchill

Back to the original question: I wouldn't advise talking to others (much less an elder) about your doubts. Nothing good wil come from that.

However I can say I have managed to voice a few things and get away with it. Maybe because my 'prominent past' within the org., or maybe because am known for speaking my mind and being irreverent, but I have seen o visible consequences (other that weird looks or laughs) to my comments. I also avoid challenging the FDS authority and concede that the poor guys are imperfect, yada yada yada.

But those close to me know I don't thinks there's scriptural basis for time keeping and reporting, ban on birthdays and thanksgiving, and that 1914 could be subject to revision.

On a Different note: I think poor Reniaa has IBS, because she's crappin' all day long!

8

Last night conversation with wifey

by winstonchurchill in

jw
friends

she commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week).

i went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.. we were having dinner.

after a pause i asked her: "if i can eat potato, and i can eat beets, and i can eat carrots... then why can't i eat the whole salad?

winstonchurchill

She commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week). I went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.

We were having dinner. After a pause I asked her: "If i can eat potato, and I can eat beets, and I can eat carrots... then why can't I eat the whole salad?" She's slow but she got this one immediately, speechless. Still, she asked: "What are you saying? That we can use blood?"

I said "No. but why are fractions allowed, and components not? If I can use gammaglobuline, why can't I use platelets? Who drew that line? I understand that whole blood can be off limits, but I still don't understand why some components are allowed and some are not".

Then we agreed that if life depends on a fraction (or a component forthat matter), not taking it would be not valuing the sanctity of life.

I presented this to her in the most sincere way, and I know I got her thinking. She didn't fight back as usual.

Yeah I know, small stuff, but a giant leap for me.