winstonchurchill

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Posts by winstonchurchill

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  71

  This is making the witness email rounds...Anyone believe them?

  by Botzwana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does jehovah know what is going on, and does he help?.

  (as told by bro.

  spangenberg, c.o.

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  winstonchurchill

  Jehovah focuses on "inconveniently located" trees in the parking lot and doesn't give a rat's ass about heathen children in Indonesia or Haiti. NICE!

  Enough said!
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  28

  CO Visits... Are elders honest about the TRUE state of the congregation?

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question is really for elders or ex-elders (or ministerial servants in the know).... did you find that some elders would tend to "white-wash" the true state of the congregation when they had their sit-down with the co every 6 months?.

  did some elders feel pressure to hide certain things from a co for fear of being "removed" from the boe?.

  (judging by the "fakeness" that some elders displayed during co visits, i have to wonder whether they were really worried about being removed for not seeking out inactives or encouraging more participation during the wt study, book study or fs...).

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  winstonchurchill

  As InBetween said, CO's are pretty much mid-level managers. And every employee in the world tries his/her best when being directly observed by a supervisor. It's human. Nothing wrong with that.

  And, yes there are true honest to god elders (as RayPublisher) trying their best, honestly. I don't think "white-washing' is a fair term for those cases. You just clean your house better when you have important visitors.

  But there are way too many elders that will flat cross the fine line into being deceptive, tweaking the facts, and then flat out lying.

  Too many times when visiting congregations I easily picked the mismatch between hard facts and what elders were telling me. I once found a sister reporting One hour, consitently every month for over a year. Long story short: she had died 6 months before at a nursing home. Boy did I let that Secretary have it!

  And anyone can tell when they lie about shepherding.
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  28

  CO Visits... Are elders honest about the TRUE state of the congregation?

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question is really for elders or ex-elders (or ministerial servants in the know).... did you find that some elders would tend to "white-wash" the true state of the congregation when they had their sit-down with the co every 6 months?.

  did some elders feel pressure to hide certain things from a co for fear of being "removed" from the boe?.

  (judging by the "fakeness" that some elders displayed during co visits, i have to wonder whether they were really worried about being removed for not seeking out inactives or encouraging more participation during the wt study, book study or fs...).

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  winstonchurchill

  Elders don't "tend" to white-wash" things; they make a conscious and deliberate effort.You will see them collecting missing service reports so there are no irregulars, and even putting down an hour or two for sister x who didn't turn in a report "but I know she did go out that month". Most Secretaries don't have cards and files updated, then rush every six months. Ditto for the accounting.

  Most of them will flat out lie when pressured by CO. "How's shepherding?" Oh, great. "Are you visiting all of the publishers?" Well of course. "Any problem lately?" No, nothing we can think of.
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  51

  Timing of "thinner magazines" announcement

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the announcement of the reduced number of pages in the watchtower & awake will be made after the watchtower study following the "special talk" on april 8.. theoretically, that's when there will be more visitors and "outsiders" than usual.

  even the talk itself has 1/2 of its content directed at inactive jws.. obviously this reduction in pages has been in the works for several weeks if not months.

  why pick that date to announce it?

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  winstonchurchill

  Obviously this reduction in pages has been in the works for several weeks if not months.

  Reducing magazines from 4 to 2 has been considered by the GB at least since the 90's.

  Why pick that date to announce it?

  Maybe they want to make it sound 'special', give it a positive twist. That date (special talk) is a spiritual high for many; they will take the aanouncement as exciting news, a sign of the end being near. I can almost hear them saying "See how the GB is simplifying because the end is so near, yada yada yada"
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  103

  Those on JWN still serving as elders...What if?

  by Kensho in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  apostates undercover elders (i know there are some professed elders on here) have you ever handled a jc envoling a publisher viewing sites like jwn or others and who question the gb etc.. and if not what if you were assigned a jc involving apostacy?.

  i would think this would be almost, if not an impossible situation.. kensho.

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  winstonchurchill

  but any real involvement in the religion is simply hypocrisy.

  MigMac, you shoud have started with "Evidenty..."; that way you fit much better the judgmental approach of the WTS and that you despise so much.
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  70

  If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

  by faithfulslavedriver in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is my first post here.

  i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

  in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

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  winstonchurchill

  OutSmartTheSystem: They will never, ever COMPLETELY dissolve the 1914 teaching as that would be impossible for them to explain. But they ARE slowly but surely moving away from focusing on it. Decades ago it dominated.

  You nailed it!

  1914 is becoming les and less relevant to the 'everyday operation' of the organization. Is more of a historical milestone: "The year the end started". But for a while they have stop talking about it as a tie reference for the end. In another post someone asked about the current understanding of "this generation" and I commented most Jw's couldn't even explain in their own words what it is. I think WT is leting it fade, cecoming secondary.

  The emphasis is being put -as someone already said- on obedience, rules and authority. After decades of obsessing with chronology, they tell us is not appropriate to be looking for "the date and the time", that we should be focusing on what's really important.

  No, they won't dump 1914. They don't need to.
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  65

  Attention Governing Body: October 2, 2014 is only 940 days away...

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in 1823, john aquila brown (a man who is not mentioned in any wt publication) came up with a bizarre mathematical calculation which totalled 2,520 years (in an unauthorized attempt to predict the end of the gentile times).... several religions recycled this bizarre calculation, including the adventists and the bible students... when armageddon didn't come on the variety of early 20th century dates predicted by several "dooms-day" religions of that time (including charles taze russell's bible students who predicted that the big a would start in 1914), they all finally realized that this 2,520-year calculation was nothing more than arbitrary mathematical speculation derived from erratic biblical extrapolation.... except for the bible students who continued to move up the date for armageddon 2 more times (1918, 1925) and then decided to use wwi as the starting point for the "last days".. all the while, one thing that seems to remain intact is the october 2, 1914 date.

  oddly, for the watchtower bible & tract publishing cult, this particular date still marks the end of the 2,520-year period (that john aquila brown referred to in his bizarre 1823 book "the even tide")... again, no mention of this in any watchtower publication.

  but, for jws, that date still remains the starting point for the period of time often referred to as the "last days" or even "the generation that shall not pass".. because of this, the governing body has been forced to change the definition of "the generation that shall not pass" countless times since the early 1970's.

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  winstonchurchill

  Just like there's a lot of buzz about the Titanic these days, just because it's been 100 years, 2014 will be a reminder of 1914. Most JW's don't actively think of 1914. If you ask 10 regular JW's the current understanding of "this generation", at least half will blank. Geez, I remember the current understanding thanks to this forum.

  I do observe they mention 1914 less and less, but of course won't drop the whole thing. I guess "1914" has become that embarrasing relative you keep in your family but don't talk a lot about, in hopes people won't notice and will eventually forget.
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  26

  JW's 'put off living'

  by Lady Viola in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was reading a book and read the following quote:.

  "one of the most tragic things i know about human nature is.

  that all of us tend to put off living.

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  winstonchurchill

  Excellent post.

  A few days ago I posted something related:

  "...the inabilty to see beyond a few years. Where do I want to be in 10 or 20 years. We were not prepared for that (the end would come in 75, right?). So all was about short term goals (prefereably pionnering goals). We were not prepared to see parents get old and die; we were not prepared to plan, age, retire."
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  76

  Those who still show up at the meetings, How do you manage?.

  by Mr Facts in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for those who still show up at the meetings, how do you manage?.

  do you still offer comments and how do you actually muster up the boldness to gave talks and still do all of those craps?..

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  winstonchurchill

  Yes, you hit a nerve. Someone who has been part of very particular organization (to put it mildly) for most of his life, and starts pondering and re-evaluating everything, tired of being constantly judged and being under scrutiny... finds this forum, expresses his opinion, and then gets (guess what?) judged!

  People are different. Some are invested to a higher degree into the org. Some are at different stages of the process. Some leave quickly, some take years, some never leave.

  You don't know me. In this forum I've chosen to disclose limited information about myself. I was a CO for many years. Very well known. That's not your fault. But acusing me while having limited information, that's very JW'ish.

  You don't know how I serve as an elder. You acuse me of dispensing information I don't believe, but you don't know what I believe in and what I don't.

  I was the first one to point there's a degree of dishonesty in my current situation.

  By that metric, this forum would be reduced to those who already left de JW's and comply with a very strict set of opinions about the JW's. The rest of us, should shut up, and stay away. Does anyone see the irony?

  But, in all honesty, thanks for your comments. Exchanging ideas it's what it's all about.

  And since you asked, yes, I've been part of two JC in the past 5 years. None ended with a DF, and i like to think I played a role in such outcome.
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  76

  Those who still show up at the meetings, How do you manage?.

  by Mr Facts in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for those who still show up at the meetings, how do you manage?.

  do you still offer comments and how do you actually muster up the boldness to gave talks and still do all of those craps?..

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  winstonchurchill

  Do you sit on judicial committees too?

  You should. Obviously you are good judge.