last night i was watching a program about greek mythology when the subject of hades and tartarus came up, hades referring to the greek god of death and tartarus referring to the place of the dead or what could be called hell.
i began to wonder why would the bible writers use such words if they were trying to avoid paganism and convey different ideas.
if hell were not a real place as witnesses say why would peter use tartarus, a word clearly known to be a place and not a condition of the dead.
Exactly my point. If they understood tartarus to be a place of darkness and torment in the afterlife this was the idea that peter was conveying which contradicts the witness idea. Hades is not the greek word for death, rather it is thanatos.
My point is that if they were not trying to convey the idea the greeks had about death and the afterlife different words should have been used.
last night i was watching a program about greek mythology when the subject of hades and tartarus came up, hades referring to the greek god of death and tartarus referring to the place of the dead or what could be called hell.
i began to wonder why would the bible writers use such words if they were trying to avoid paganism and convey different ideas.
if hell were not a real place as witnesses say why would peter use tartarus, a word clearly known to be a place and not a condition of the dead.
Last night I was watching a program about greek mythology when the subject of Hades and Tartarus came up, Hades referring to the Greek god of death and Tartarus referring to the place of the dead or what could be called hell.
I began to wonder why would the bible writers use such words if they were trying to avoid paganism and convey different ideas. If hell were not a real place as witnesses say why would peter use tartarus, a word clearly known to be a place and not a condition of the dead. It seems that it would have been misleading.
Anyway what are your thoughts? I wonder what witnesses would say about it.
Piercingtheveil81
for reasons i have posted on another topic i have become involved with a study with a rather knowledgeable jw.
i try to stay clear of the scripture (im an atheist who have never read the bible so i have desided to agree with his interpretation of the scripture for the sake of argument, however to say that when it come to interpretations of the bible, there are also many other ways to think about it, and it require significant research for me to commit to one particular view).
we talked about how you know jehovahs witness have the truth and ofcourse the conversation went into the usual topics like using the name jehovah (however, it did end where i felt it should, on jesus selection in 1918, more on that on another thread).
While I do not believe the bible to be 100% the word of God I really do feel that Rom 10:13 is a reference to Jesus. Although it is originally found in Joel in reference to Jehovah, under the context paul is clearly speaking about Jesus before and after. Their are many instances were Paul uses old testament texts that originally have an application to Jehovah but are used in reference to Christ.
While it is difficult to convince christians otherwise, I believe to bible to present conflicting and contradictory ideas and theology, thus the reason for so many sects and denominations among christians. Thats why God sent His last messenger (peace be upon him) to correct the misconceptions and errors.
Piercingtheveil81
this is a hall in oceanside, california.
it is hidden away from the street on a nondescript lane.. .
no windows!.
I gave a talk at a hall that looked similar to this one in carlsbad not far from oceanside.
Hey kurtbethel are you from san diego county?
i talked to a couple of my friends that are jw's this week about this, they said, "well, obviously mj thought it was the truth, that's why he left his kids to his mother, so they can be raised as witnesses.".
why didn't he leave his kids to his brothers?
he has several of them.. bf.
I heard MJ converted to islam. There are news reports on youtube about it. Also his brother Jermaine, in the statement made after his death, made a reference to Allah.
Does anyone know for sure whether he converted or not?
PVT81
a thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
Ak-Jeff have you ever read "Jesus words only; or was Paul the apostle Jesus condemns in Rev. 2:22" by douglas de Tondo?
Its an excellent book that goes into how paul was really nothing more than a self proclaimed apostle who was constantly defending his position in his letters because many early christians considered his ideas to be heresy.
Del Tondo's book uses the bible as well as early church sources as well as the writings of Josephus to prove this and to show that there was in fact great disagreement between the apostles in Jerusalem and paul and his disciples.
he never asks me spiritual questions... but, he just did, and i don't know what to say.. he asked what the issue of sovereignty has to do with us?
why do we have to suffer because of what satan did?
satan has been proven a liar over and over again, so why do we have to keep paying the price?
Islamic Prespective:
Suffering is not related to any issue of God's sovereignty or the original sin of Adam. It doesn't make sense to believe that God created Adam with free will expecting him to be 100% obedient. Any creature with free will is bound to do something sooner or later that is not in agreement with God.
We believe that God created all things to worship Him. " I have only created jinns and men that they may worship Me" Quran 51:56
Although He is not the cause of evil he certainly created the elements for its existance such as hate, jealousy, pride, love, sexual desire, etc. In itself these things are not necessarily bad when used properly. But since we have free will we at times use them in such a way that is detrimental to ourselves.
Since God is without need of any sort, our being loyal does nothing for Him nor benefits Him in any way. Its only to benefit ourselves.
This life is a gift but also a test to see how you use it. If it is used well then paradise awaits the individual.
there was a social event and i was invited to attend.
the event was by a kindergarden school that my 3 year old child had a play.
after the songs and theatrical plays by the kids food was served.. .
I can play that game too. I told my wife since I'm not invited or allowed to enter her family's houses they are not welcome at mine either.
well the convention was extremely long and boring but i decided to take specific notes on brother morris's talks for discussion here on jwd (and i was also able to get a few extra copies of the creation dvd so if anyone wants one, pm me).. overall, the brother is not a great orator and sometimes awkwardly raises his voice.
i am aware that some of the friends were a little disappointed to say the least that we did not get a more "famous" gb brother at the first international convention, but he speaks for the gb, so same difference.. it felt like most of his talks were around a.
) countering criticism about jws and b.
posted by greg staffordat 3:58 amsunday, november 30, 2008hello!
welcome to "watching the ministry.
" my name is greg stafford.
Villabolo, I agree. The elders didn't answer any of my questions either. In fact one told he didn't have to because he believed it was the truth. And whenever they had a question for me I gave them a biblical answer.
In the end the elders where just quiet and asked me "So what do you want to do then!". I wish I could have recorded it.
slimboyfat, are you really in Afghanistan?