Is Mr. Stafford,still (again) a Jehovah's witness or disfellowshipped?

by Koiné 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Koiné
    Koiné

    Posted by Greg Stafford at 3:58 AM

    Sunday, November 30, 2008

    Hello! Welcome to "Watching the Ministry." My name is Greg Stafford. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and a Christian Witness of Jah. Both are the same thing, really, in that both "Jehovah's Witnesses" and the "Christian Witnesses of Jah" from a biblical perspective have to do with those people who bear witness to the God Jah, apart from the traditions of men (compare Isaiah 29:13; Galatians 1:10). Of course, many who hear "Jehovah's Witnesses" think immediately of those who bear witness to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. That is not what makes one a Jehovah's Witness, and the Christian Witnesses of Jah reject any attempt to equate bearing witness to Jah with bearing witness to men.

    Is Mr. Stafford disfellowshipped ,or are there double standards in the WO organisation,or is this a precedent to follow?

    Greetings

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    He is not df'ed, he has regular talks with elders of the near congregations, and is in correspondence with the Brooklyn HQ about certain questions, where he has yet to receive the definite answers. He is careful in his wording, he seldom speaks about what "I mean", more about what "some say" and "this could imply that" etc., so he is walking one a tight line. But somehow, he has managed to survive, although he is inactive and is on the brink of "beginning a new religion for himself". I don't think there exactly are double standards, more that the questions he has raised are so complex and important that HQ needs TIME - of course there is also the signal effect. Some sort of double standards, but not only.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I don't know but have you seen the first chapter of the new edition of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended he has posted online? I read it the other day and I think it's excellent. I look forward to reading the rest.

  • aniron
    aniron

    The following is from Elihu Books, founded by Greg Staffford , may give you an idea of his thinking.

    The history and purpose of Elihu Books is in many ways the history and purpose of Greg Stafford, a Christian Witness of Jah, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who rejects teachings and traditions of men where these contradict what for good reasons can be shown to be from the biblical God Jehovah, or Jah (Psalm 68:4; Isaiah 12:2; Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6). Elihu Books was founded by Stafford in 1997 to publish information about Jehovah God, his Son Jesus Christ, and those who bear witness to the truth concerning them. In 1997, and even before his baptism in 1990, Stafford was an advocate of many of the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses as presented in literature published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Today he still advocates many of these same doctrines, but not all of them.

    Stafford did not establish Elihu Books or write publications in defense of Jehovah’s Witnesses for those committed to the Watchtower Society. He founded Elihu Books and began publishing information for those who were uncertain about the teachings of the Bible respecting the God Jah and Jesus of Nazareth. Stafford also felt the need to give “an answer to scholars and critics,” as the subtitle of his Defended book reveals, in harmony with 1 Peter 3:15. This was particularly the case for Jah, for Jesus, and for Jehovah’s Witnesses, this in spite of many controversial positions and teachings published by the Watchtower Society, a corporation closely associated with many who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    http://www.elihubooks.com/content/about_us.php

    Whether he is still tolerated bt the Watchtower I could not say, but if it was anyone else they would be out well before now.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    although he is inactive

    If he's inactive, then he's not a JW -- by their standards.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    There is something just a bit jarring in the way Greg Stafford expresses his position. He talks about "the Watchtower, a corporation closely associated with many who claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses." What the hell is that supposed to mean? His prose is full of shrouded references like this as if to suggest there is something more to his "movement" than he is letting on.

    He keeps implying there is a loose affiliation of Witnesses who consider themselves "Christian Witnesses of Jah". But I have never seen anyone use that label to describe themselves other than Greg Stafford himself. There are certainly Witnesses who sympathise with the arguments Greg Stafford makes about what is central in JW teaching and what needs to be revised. But I am not aware of any groundswell of support for his "Witnesses of Jah" group so his rhetoric smacks of delusions of grandeur I have to say.

    Until he lays his cards on the table I find it hard to take what he says about "Witnesses of Jah" very seriously. Having said that I enjoy very much reading the information he has gathered about the history of the divine name and its use by the early Christians.

  • dozy
    dozy

    This statement gives Stafford's current position...

    http://www.elihubooks.com/data/lampstand/000/000/007/Why_interested_in_JWs_REVISED.pdf

    I think Stafford was particularly angry at the Sep 07 KM QFR (which almost seemed directly to be aimed at him) and he almost DAd himself at that point , though seems to have pulled back somewhat from that situation. Even though he does couch what he says carefully , I am surprised that he hasn't been DFd. Maybe he has friends in high places , the alleged "apostates" embedded at Brooklyn. Cetainly some of his research seems to have ended up in the Watchtower. Rather odd situation.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    In conversation with a brother who was quite friendly with Stafford at one time, when I asked why Stafford had not been disfellowshipped, looked at me and said: "well he does attend a congregation in California you know", and laughed. I took this to mean Californian Witnesses are known to be slightly less strict then elsewhere. Has anyone else got experience of that?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Dozy I don't think the Sept 2007 KM was aimed at Stafford at all. I think it was aimed at Tony Byatt, Hal Flemings and Golden Age Books. I always intended to write a big post explaining why but I never got round to it. Golden Age Books is winding down now anyway it seems.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Although I don't think the Sept 2007 KM was aimed at Greg Stafford, I can nevertheless totally understand that he took exception to it.

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