VoidEater, I understand what you are saying but it is not in agreement with the personality of the God of the bible that revealed himself to the prophets.
Piercingtheveil81
JoinedPosts by Piercingtheveil81
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21
A question from a recent lurker?
by peake1 ini've been out of "the truth" (df'd) for over the last 15yrs and have struggled with one question all this time.
if the jw faith is not the one true religion and way to worship god then what is??
after all the bible doesn't say there are many ways to serve god but that the door is narrow leading off to ever lasting life and few are the ones finding it.
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21
A question from a recent lurker?
by peake1 ini've been out of "the truth" (df'd) for over the last 15yrs and have struggled with one question all this time.
if the jw faith is not the one true religion and way to worship god then what is??
after all the bible doesn't say there are many ways to serve god but that the door is narrow leading off to ever lasting life and few are the ones finding it.
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Piercingtheveil81
Hello Peake1,
I was a JW for 11 years and when I came out of the org. I was face with the same situation. I believe you are correct that the bible refers to one path for the worship of God. There has never been an ocassion when God accepted multiple forms of worship. Just as there is one God there must also be one truth. There must be a division between what is true and what is false.
Like you I had a difficult time with the trinity doctrine. I studied a number books from evangelical and refromed theology perspectives. I desparately tried to convince myself of their arguments in order to believe in the trinity. In the end I had to admit that I just didn't agree that the bible taught this doctrine which is supposed to be of such importance. The reason why so much use of theological and philiosophical terminology is used to explain the trinity is precisely for the reason that it is not clearly presented therein.
To make a long story short, after alot of studying and investigation, both from biblical sources and secular, I concluded that christianity it self is held together by very weak evidences and reasons in light of the explanations regarding God in the old testament and secular history in mind. Although it seems to be presented as strong evidence it is easily exposed with honest investigation.
This however does not mean that we should conclude that God doesn't exist as many have done. Rather some portions of the bible clearly show proof of some divine authorship, at least at one time, which cannot be said about the New Testament. One thing is for sure and that is that God is One, He alone desreves worship, and He has used prophets in the past to guide the righteous.
After much prayer and investigation I was led to the path of Islam, which proclaims the divine oneness of God as creator and Lord of all that exists. We accept the prophets of old including Jesus and Prophet Muhammad, a descendant of Abraham (Peace be on them both) who was sent as a guide and mercy to all mankind. This is why we can find great parallels between the Law of Moses and the Islamic laws since their source is in fact the same God.
The Quran exhorts Christians by saying:
5:77 "Say" O' People of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion going beyond the truth, and do not follow the useless desires of people who went wrong in old times-those who misled many and wandered from the even path""
3:64 Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).
There is so much more that can be said, and many proofs that show the divine authorship of the Quran. The west has done much discourage interest in Islam but we should look past that and examine it for ourselves. If you would like any more information just let me know.
Piercingtheveil81
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50
Did You Ever Secretly "Sin" & The Elders Never Knew About It?
by minimus inwe, as elders, would every so often give a little talk about keeping the congregation clean and that if anyone felt the need to talk to us, to get whatever is bothering them off their chest, we would be readily available to them.
you'd be shocked to see how many would tell us some naughty things they were feeling guilty about.. i'm sure there were plenty of smart people who simply kept quiet and didn't say a word.. here's your opportunity to tell us what you wouldn't tell them..
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Piercingtheveil81
I used to get drunk about every other day and I was serving as a an MS at the same time. I remember a few times having a few beers before conducting the bookstudy. The worst was going to meeting the next morning with a hang-over and having an elder ask me " could you be the chairman for the visiting speaker?".
I did feel guilty about it. Only one time did I have to turn myself in because someone told on me. The elders didn't seem to mind so much, they just told me to be careful about who I drink in front of so others don't talk.
Piercingtheveil81
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17
Crisis of Conscience
by EmptyInside inwell, i just ordered "crisis of conscience".
i'm kind of nervous about actually buying and reading it.
this life is all i've ever known, it's my whole identity really.
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Piercingtheveil81
I hope that everything turns out well.
I would say, however, not to just throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Worship of God has and will always be somewhat divisive no matter what anyone says. But that doesn't mean that we should give up on seeking what is pleasing to the Creator and doing it. This is how I felt and ultimately that was the strength that carried me through leaving the Org. When I finally spoke to the elders about my feelings I felt fearless. They had no answers to my questions.
But really take to the time to search for truth. Pray to God directly with no mediator. The israelites and prophets of old did not pray through mediators yet God heard them. So ask Him for guidance and direction to a straight path, and do it sincerely. While many may disagree me, I believed I've found that path in a belief that is found in the hearts of 1.4 billion people around the world. It is the path of Islam.
In your search do not exclude Islam. It is a religion that greatly respects the prophets from Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Muhammad the final prophet. It holds in high regard the oneness of God as the only one worthy of worship without partners. Just as there are ways of seeing some divine authorship on some writings in the bible so to there many of those found in the Quran which prove its divine authorship. So check it out when you can when you get to that point. There are loads of videos on youtube about it. And even though Islam gets very bad publicity it is becoming the fastest growing religion in the world. Many Christians are leaving the churches and converting to Islam. Why? That would be something to check for yourself as I did.
I don't mean to be very preachy but I just get excited to tell others to at least take an honest look at Islam, a religion that is often neglected of consideration by so many.
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Crisis of Conscience
by EmptyInside inwell, i just ordered "crisis of conscience".
i'm kind of nervous about actually buying and reading it.
this life is all i've ever known, it's my whole identity really.
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Piercingtheveil81
I understand your feelings. I ordered the book too and felt nervous that someone would find out. I even remember having nightmares that family members found the book in my possesion. Of course I'm DA'd now so I don't care, but it took about a year and a half.
The truth is that there really is no turning back now. I cannot imagine how anyone could read the book and still believe its God's organization. I don't know if you are religious or not, but if you are, being around other jw will feel strange. Being at the meetings and listening to talks is upsetting because they dishonor the Creator. Whats worse is when you are assigned a part, I was still an MS at the time and bookstudy conductor, so you can imagine.
Hang in there. The book is an awesome read for sure and is well documented to show you that everything is legit.
Piercingtheveil81
P.S. Don't feel pressured by anyone to accept the trinity doctrine, do your own research and be honest about it.
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What Are Your Thoughts On The Apostle Paul?
by cognac ini find him very confusing and difficult to figure out sometimes.
evidently, peter did also.
anyways, i find him a bit harsh and unloving in the way he deals with the congregations and i was shocked how he rebuked with peter.
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Piercingtheveil81
PSacramento,
True, bue we have to remember that Acts was written by Luke who was one of Paul's best friends which is why Acts is primarily focused on Paul. If we are counting on biblical sources, aside from Acts we know virtually nothing of the other apostles. I don't disagree that some accepted him to be an apostle but that doesn't mean that it is true just as witnesses accept the org. as the channel of God.
It is true that Jesus said he came not to abolish the Law. If we continue reading he further stated that anyone who did not keep it or taught others not to keep it (Paul for example) would be the least in the kingdom. Evidence shows that a great number of Jewish Christians continued to practice the Law after Jesus ascention. I do not believe that the Law was done away with at that time until there came another Law that was not for Jews only but for all mankind. Of course these are my beliefs.
I'm not Christian by the way. Nor do I accpet the New Testament documents as the word of God.
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109
What Are Your Thoughts On The Apostle Paul?
by cognac ini find him very confusing and difficult to figure out sometimes.
evidently, peter did also.
anyways, i find him a bit harsh and unloving in the way he deals with the congregations and i was shocked how he rebuked with peter.
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Piercingtheveil81
Has anyone ever read "Jesus words only" by Douglas del Tondo a christian attorney. In his book he uses his abilities as an attorney by using the evidence, both biblical and extrabiblical, to judge whether Paul was a false apostle or not. It is an awesome read.
You can read the whole thing free at this link http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/JWO/freechaptersonline.html.
I've come to the conclusion that Paul is in fact a false prophet who created a new religion that is drastically different from judaism. Out of the three Abrahamic faiths, Christianity seems to be the odd one out with Islam and Judaism having much more resemblance.
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On my way out of the "organization" and feeling very lost...
by 2pink infirstly, thank god i found this forum!
i've spent the better part of today while my kids were in school reading many threads.. some background...i am in my mid 30s, married, 2 kids.
i was born and raised a jw...came from "good" stock...elders, pioneers, etc.
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Piercingtheveil81
Hello 2pink,
I understand your situation completely as it sounds a whole lot like mine. My wife did the same thing, she wouldn't read anything that contradicted the society. Just be patient. More than anything you can be an influence by your good example showing that even you don't agree with the org. you can still be a excellent person and good mother. Eventually he will probabely come around as my wife finally did. I've been out for about 8 months now. Although she is still in she doesn't believe its "God's organization" and stays only for her family ties.
As far as your religious situation is concerned, take your time and do some honest investigation in all avenues. Don't feel pressured to except many doctrines present in mainstream christian denominations just because you want somewhere to go. Witnesses are not wrong on every single thing as far as the bible is concerned (the trinity for example). Many christians are going to shove that down your throat even implying that your salvation depends on it.
I personally visited many churches, including a synagogue and a mosque, before I left the organization and examined their doctrines in some detail. After much investigation and earnest prayer I was led to embrace Islam as my religion and am happily serving God as a Muslim. So take your time and don't jump into accepting certain doctrines just to fit in, do some honest investigation. I still believe that parts of the bible contain some truth and bear signs of divine inspiration as far as the old testament is concerned. However, it has not been protected from corruption, which can be easily identified with some investigation. Even Jehovah acknowleged that in Jeremiah 8:18 when He said: "How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the Law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely".
At one time you believed that you had the truth and that everything else was falsehood only to realize that it was actually built on hallow reasoning. What your parents and family taught you was not trustworthy although it seemed like it. Could it be possible then that what society around us believes is not necessarily true or that some facts have been exaggerated or misconstrued? It is a huge possibility. So be careful.
If you are concerned, as I was, with worship to God that is pleasing to Him, you should pray to him directly and beg for guidance and direction with sincerity and honest intention. Don't use any mediator or other person's name to pray through. The Jews never prayer to God through someone elses name as a mediator and yet God heard them and answered them. Even when the prophet Moses ( may the peace and blessings of God be upon him) was a type of mediator it was unthinkable to pray to God in the name of Moses. So pray to your Creator directly and seek guidance. I have no doubt that If this is your concern He will hear you. God tells us in The Holy Quran 2:186,
"When my servants ask you concerning me, I am indeed close to them: I listen to the prayer of ever (humble) caller when he calls Me: Let them also, listen to my call and believe in Me, that they may be led to the right way"
Although there will be some difficult times ahead I hope that everything in the end turns out well for you and your family. I will keep you in my prayers.
Piercingtheveil81
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What do you think - are most ex-JWs atheist, agnostic, or still involved in some form of religion?
by lifelong humanist ini dad 6 years ago because, after a rational search came to the conclusion that there probably is no god.
shortly afterwards, i concluded that (for me) there is no god, which made me feel that i really was a natural-born humanist - a position that i'm entirely comfortable with.
i know that many former jws hold a similar, atheistic viewpoint.
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Piercingtheveil81
I embraced Islam as my way of life and am a proud muslim.
I am one of those persons that did not turn to christianity after leaving the witnesses. After a lot of reading and research I reached the conclusion that christianity was not a path that even Jesus intended. He came to establish the Torah to its proper place not to abolish it as Paul would have you believe (Matt 5:17-20). His message was one and the same as all the prophets before and after him including prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon all of them). I wanted to stick to the simple faith of Abraham (peace be upon him).
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Make August 2009 the dawn of the "mass exodus"...the beginning of the end of the Watchtower org!
by koolaid-man inthe watchtower organization is without doubt doing everything they can to keep their business afloat.
they are at a critical point in their ever so blemished present condition.
there is simply too much genuine criticism from not only those on the outside but, also from those on the inside.
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Piercingtheveil81
I don't think such a thing will ever happen. It seems that it would take some major campaigning, not only that but I don't think that there are enough people who got the guts to do it.
Many that don't believe its the "Truth" feel that they don't have a very good reason to leave. I've talked to a number of disfellowshipped that don't believe its true but are trying to go back for the sake of family and friends. For many its just not worth it.