gubberningbody

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Posts by gubberningbody

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  43

  Even God can't escape the Matrix

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the only thing god can know for certain, is what we know for certain:.

  we think, so we know we exist.. .

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  gubberningbody

  tec/Tam...

  The question isn't about God knowing about his own existence.

  Any conscious "person" at least knows they exist.

  What is not known, or is even knowable by ANY conscious "person", is the nature of his/her/its own existence.

  For example, the old quote attributed to the chinese philosopher Zhuangzi...

  "Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things."

  http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zhuangzi

  This illustrates the problem that the movie The Matrix wrestles with.

  This is why any self-proclaimed God can NEVER know whether or not there may be still OTHER Gods higher than him or herself.

  So when Isaiah ostensibly quotes Jehovah at Isaiah 44:6-7:

  “This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. And who is there like me? Let him call out, that he may tell it and present it to me..."

  Jehovah is just making an assertion to the ones in his own Matrix. He can never know unless someone were to "... call out, that he may tell it and present it to [him]. "

  So one can speak of Jehovah's omniscience as "knowing all things which are knowable", but the knowledge of "knowing" whether one is or is not living in a Matrix-like situation is something which is simply not "knowable". This is why Jehovah can never really know that he is the "first and the last".

  So Jehovah's doing a Taxi-Driver to humanity.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgcVLOe9qFM
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  43

  Even God can't escape the Matrix

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the only thing god can know for certain, is what we know for certain:.

  we think, so we know we exist.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  gubberningbody

  tec/Tam... You haven't dealt with the question posed by this thread.
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  40

  AGuest:

  by Vicosovich_R in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you believe that just because you start your posts with, may you have peace, that you are genuinely kind?

  when in actuality, when you greet people with that message, then follow it with sarcasm and snide remarks, you are really being cruel.

  when was cruelty ever synonymous with being faithful?

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  gubberningbody

  Aguest translation services:

  "May you have peace" = "F*xk you"

  "Dear One" = "A$$h*le"
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  4

  The "You're not important enough to God Argument for Communication" doesn't work

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  unless you submit that the power of god is limited and that each communication takes a toll on him..

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  gubberningbody

  Unless you submit that the power of God is limited and that each communication takes a toll on him.
• 
  69

  Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all understand the justice argument against hell: the idea that god might decide that a wicked person's sins merit everlasting conscious punishment offends our sense of justice.. do even hitler's sins merit never-ending conscious punishment for all eternity?.

  we know that the wtbts takes an annihilationist view of the "everlasting" punishment described by the bible.. they teach that there is no separate "soul" or "spirit" that survives physical death and that the ultimate fate of the unrepentant wicked is annihilation by jehovah.. let's assume for the sake of argument that they are right.. is this justice?.

  over the years, the wtbts has flip-flopped on whether or not these wicked people will be resurrected for purposes of judgment or whether they simply will remain dead with no hope of any sort of resurrection.. let's look at various possibilities.

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  gubberningbody

  The presumption of the question:

  1. Free will exists

  2. Everyone has the same amount of free will

  3. Free will's expression is evenly distributed across one's character
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  112

  Can anyone come up with a morally acceptable reason for waiting thousands of years to end wickedness?

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can't.. some bar-bet between jehovah and satan balanced against all the evil allowed just doesn't wash..

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  gubberningbody

  Finger, if this God has any morality which makes sense to anyone, it could never make sense to the me that is me right now. (Unless someone wants to chime in with something really good right now.)

  This non-argument-argument is pretty much as good as it gets : "You'll die, wake up from your confusion and give a wise nod to how it was all so perfectly moral, upright and just."

  This might be true, however this would only be true for the future me, and not for the me who is here right now.

  Right now I see "fright all around". This is the world I was born in to, the world I live in and likely the world I'll die in as well. No moral God exists in this world.
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  43

  Even God can't escape the Matrix

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the only thing god can know for certain, is what we know for certain:.

  we think, so we know we exist.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  gubberningbody

  RI, I think you're confusing faith with knowledge. Sure if you have the mind of the "Road Runner", you can run through painted tunnels on rock walls, but not if you're at least as intelligent as Wile E. Coyote.

  BEEP, BEEP!

  tec, Jesus wasn't answering this question. What he was saying is "If you want to know God, don't look any further than the closest morally upright person you can see." He wasn't saying anything beyond this.

  Aguest, it must be a world of rainbows and unicorns where you live.

  BTS...

  You are right to note that there is no need for the things in any domain to be infinite.

  It is true that POSSIBLE knowledge can be finite.

  It is also true that by redefining omniscience as "knowing all things which are knowable" one can thereby affirm the "omniscience" of God.

  However, the possible true-ness of such "omniscience" doesn't endow this "omniscience" with the knowledge of knowing whether one happens to be in a Matrix within a Matrix or not.

  This knowledge falls into the category of things which are "too deep for God". (and us too)

  In order to demonstrate that God's omniscience includes his knowing that he/she/it is the Alpha and the Omega (and not just another being in a Matrix) one would have to be able to explain how this knowledge falls within the realm of such possible knowledge. If this is consequently "possible" knowledge, then how is this "possible" knowledge possible for God and not possible for us?
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  112

  Can anyone come up with a morally acceptable reason for waiting thousands of years to end wickedness?

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can't.. some bar-bet between jehovah and satan balanced against all the evil allowed just doesn't wash..

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  gubberningbody

  Aguest... The question was clear, however your answer was rambling, and clearly missed the point.

  It should be clear that any rehashment of WT babble wouldn't be sufficient.

  Finger... I'm saying both.

  If there is a God, there is no way that this God has a morality even remotely resembling what a decent person would be considered morally upright.

  This doesn't argue to its existence, however it does argue strongly against every concept of God as represented by any organized religion.
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  43

  Even God can't escape the Matrix

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the only thing god can know for certain, is what we know for certain:.

  we think, so we know we exist.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  gubberningbody

  BTS, I pull this from the long, long discussion regarding the impossibilities of ACTUAL infinities.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_infinity
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  112

  Can anyone come up with a morally acceptable reason for waiting thousands of years to end wickedness?

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i can't.. some bar-bet between jehovah and satan balanced against all the evil allowed just doesn't wash..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  gubberningbody

  Yeah F.

  Of course by now I think we all realize the impossibility of a creature like the God of any religion as having any existence because its parameters are as limited as the religions which describe it or the minds that conceive of it. Such a creature could not create anything.