Posts by thomas15

29

My latest thoughts on God.

by desib77 in

jw
friends

it has been a while since i last posted here.

i thought i was past a lot of the jw / religion stuff but apparently i'm not.

i thought i would list the many things that have been going through my head lately regarding the idea of a higher power.

You ask a lot of good questions. The real crime of the WT is that they take the Bible, which I personally think is the word of God and distort it for their own selfish reasons. Even with the deplorable NWT, it is easy for a person who is fair minded but not emotionally tied to WT theology to see that the WT teaches many things that are either not in the Bible or against the clear teaching of the Bible. I don't say this to insult you, in fact I'm amazed that anyone who has been in and finally out of the WT would even have anything nice to say about the Bible or God. You seem to want answers and you are not going to be satisfied without proof and a reasonable explanation.

I think the question you are asking is why is there sin in the world and why does God chose to deal with it the way He does. The thing about it is, if you allow that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, that He was with the Father in the beginning and that through Him all things that were created, were created by Him, then there is not a more loving thing that God could do for sinful man than to humble Himself and sacrifice His life at the cross. Then, as if that were not enough, God offers this salvation based of the shed blood of His Son as a free gift if only we will accept this gift by faith.

As a Bible believing Evangelical for 35 years, I have been either a member or regular attender of 8 or 9 different Bible church groups or demonimations and none of them have ever told me I must do anything besides believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved. I have 100s of books about the Bible and probably at least 100 Bibles in my collection and it's never a chore for me to open up a book and read about my Savior who gave His life so that I can be with Him forever. The Gospel message is very simple, man tries to make it complex. Simple is best.

I can say my dear Desi that the Bible has the answer and this is true. But I doubt that those words are helpful for you. But if you ask God to reveal himself to you, I know He will. If you ask Him, God will send someone to you who will demonstrate His love for you, just as He sent Peter to Cornelius in Acts Ch. 10. But prove all things by the Scriptures and be tough, demand proof because the Bible can stand up to anything man can throw at it.

47

Would you rather see the WTS move mainstream or just collapse in a heap?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

maybe eventually the wts will adapt and change and try to go mainstream.. as 'new shite' shines brightly then;.

maybe eventually celebrating birthdays and even christmas will be 'allowed' without too many repercussions.. maybe eventually the 'blood' issue will fade away and 'brothers' wil be allowed the whole lot of fractions together at the same time.. maybe eventually disfellowshipping and particularly shunning will be seen as unloving and done away with.. personally i would rather this wouldn't happen.. i would prefer to see the wts collapse in the mire even with all the emotional fallout there would be to those still in having their crutches pulled away from them.. i don't want the wts to modify and adapt and go more gentle on the rank and file.. i want them to get more harsh with the brothers.. i want it to go down, not along.. am i being too cruel to those still in?.

would the more loving caring attitude be to hope that the wts changes for the better?.

thomas15

Well, I don't have the 1st hand experience but I do have an opinion. I really do think that the WT will have to do something to broaden it's appeal. I feel that those who factor in the Mormons are on to something, as I think the WT management will look to the Mormons for some inspiration. The problem for the WT is that they have been negative on advanced education while the Mormons have embraced education. So, and not to offend anyone but how will the WT appeal to those who have college degrees or want degrees for their children without offending those who didn't persue advanced education due to the current WT doctrine?

With paperless publishing and the decline in real estate prices, the WT may find itself in financial dire strates and it could prove entertaining to watch how they deal with it. My gut tells me that there will be in internal GB fight revolving around those who want to set another date, since this has worked before to swell the ranks, and those who want to go mainstream and relax the education and shunning rules, you know, make it a family friendly religion.

27

Sorrow ...

by compound complex in

jw
friends

i have made repeated attempts to move on with my life since your arrival 23 september but cannot.

a change of venue, that of diet, even new clothes have afforded me but a frivolous and temporary elevation of spirits.

accordingly, as i am thus paralyzed by a most profound sense of melancholia, i lie in bed, starring at a black sky, and pine anew for what little contentment life once offered up.

thomas15

I wish co co I could do something to help. I really do.

Tom

40

Reading is over-rated

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

have you ever seen people who just constantly read.

they read at every given opportunity, at the gym, on the bus and train, at the beach, all weekend, even while holidaying overseas they mostly just read.

you even see them going down the street holding a book while walking, like some kind of zombie.

thomas15

My fellow firefighters at my local volunteer fire company call me "bookworm". The amount of time I put into being a volly firefighter is considerable, training, drills, state fire school, fundraisers and actual emergency calls. I do a lot of reading. I also have a BB in TKD, member of the high school Band Boosters (my kids play in the band), member of my church "Praise Team". I play the 5 string Banjo almost everyday and I read on average 1 book/week in addition to about 1 or more hours/day in the word. I work 40 hrs/week, spend about 10/week driving to work and read a considerable amount but less that time reading than my kids play video games or listen to ipods.

123

Clarifying the Trinity Doctrine

by UnDisfellowshipped in

since there is so much confusion among ex-jw's, jw's, and christians in general about exactly what the trinity doctrine is, i decided to post this to clarify this teaching.. the historical trinity doctrine of the christian (protestant and catholic) churches has always been this:.

* there is only one true god by nature.. * there are three distinct persons who share equally the nature of god.. * there are not three different gods (that is the false doctrine of tritheism or polytheism).. * there is not one person who is revealed three different ways (that is the false doctrine of modalism).. * however, each person of the trinity does have his own "role" or "function.

" the son willingly obeys the father.

thomas15

To sort of paraphrase Chuck Colson, there is God above me, God beside me and God within me.

Tom

47

Ramapo denies Jehovah's Witnesses tax exemption

by lrkr in

jw
friends

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20090503/news03/905030339&s=d&page=#pluckcomments.

.

this morning's paper- front page..

thomas15

From a financial standpoint..and budgeting for the community - I would press for taxes on any unoccupied and unused land and/or building that is currently exempt for religious reasons. There is no reason for a piece of property that is owned by a religious order but unused, to be exempt - it offers nothing to the community. I'm sure if there is not a law regarding this, one can be worked in. sammieswife.

I think the tax exemption is because of the constitutional right to freedom of religion, not what the religion offers in the way of goods/services/perks to the community. I'm not on the side of the WT, rather on the side of the US Constitution.

15

Need help.

by lostjdub93 in

jw
friends

well to start i was raised a jw.

my girlfriend is as member of sovereign grace ministries.

i have not been to a meeting in 15 years, i have attended the memorial every year.

thomas15

P.S. In my post above I wrote "Pressured to join" which was a bad choice of words. What I ment to communicate is that you will not be considered for membership until you make the decision for Christ and then ask to join. This is of course what I think is the situation (a typical Evangelical) from my vantage point in web site land.

Tom

15

Need help.

by lostjdub93 in

jw
friends

well to start i was raised a jw.

my girlfriend is as member of sovereign grace ministries.

i have not been to a meeting in 15 years, i have attended the memorial every year.

thomas15

Lostdub93,

My heart goes out to you. I don't really know much about your girlfriends church but I did read the statement of faith at their website and so this gives me some idea. But before we go into that there is a bigger issue and that is the upcoming birth of a child. I agree with those who say that a family will be miles ahead if there is religious unity and especally when both husband and wife are In Christ. My advice to you is for you to really think long and hard about what is going to happen and what your role will be. The only "best" thing for you to do is start talking to your girlfriend and get everything out on the table now. You have a responsibility in this matter and that is not going away if you ignore everything, although I don't think that is what you want to do.

My brief reading of the statement of faith for Sovereign Grace Ministries (of which I have never heard of before) is that it is reformed with some modifications. To give you an idea, the biggest Reformed church in the US is the Presbyterian Church. While there are some Liberal "Mainline" Presbyterian Churches out there, there are also some conservative ones also. It appears that Sovereign Grace is firmly on the conservative side. Presbyterian churches are not independent like Baptist Churches but they are not like the WT or Catholic church either, where everything is run from a top office and trickles down. Rather there are regional Presbyteries that govern a number of local churches. I was baptised Presbyterian although now Baptist I would have no problem going back, but we are not talking about me or Presbyterians, rather Sovereign Grace. By the way, Reformed theology is also called Calvanistic so you may like to read a little on that.

I also think Sovereign Grace is slightly charasmatic in nature. Not my cup of tea personally but it doesn't appear to be the main feature. Other than that it seems like a rock solid group from a doctrinal perspective (my read), very Bible based and Christ centered. So, given what little I know about your situation and your girlfriends church I think you should work with her on this. I'm sure you will find this church group to be way less dominating than the WT. For an evangelical, it all starts with coming to Christ and you will not be pressured to join until you make that personal decision to put your faith and trust in the risen Jesus. However, I would expect that you would be treated fairly and warmly by those at the church for as long as you go there, even if you never make that decision. As an evangelical myself, I find that it is common to have a percentage, lets just say 20% of those who attend and participate who are not trusting in Christ and they are not pressured to pretend that they do when they don't.

Again, you don't know me and I don't know you or your situation. But I'm impressed with your willingness to discuss this and I think you want to do the right thing. My vote goes in the "work with your girlfriend" box. And don't worry about her church, it's not a cult from what I can tell.

Yours truly,

Tom

34

My JW Life... (LONG)

by silent in

jw
friends

i never, ever thought i would ever be posting on a board such as this but here i am.

i've been reading the boards for several months and despite my initial conscience twinges, i couldn't help but follow a logical thought process on many issues that were causing me grief.

over this past week, due to the things i've read on here, i've had a massive cloud lift from me and i'm starting to feel joy and love in my heart that i've *never* felt before.

thomas15

Silent, Some story you have. It is the kind of thing that I have to read several times to get the full impact. I always try to mention when I reply to a post that I'm not now nor never been a JW so I cannot fully understand your situation.

While I was reading your story I do find parallels to my life though. I have 3 sisters and 2 brothers and as we are all adults now and most have familys it is interesting to see where we are spiritually these days. One of my sisters is hard core Catholic, another is New Age, the third is what I would call secular humanist but she has no real set beliefs, just a big ego. One of my brothers is Darwin the other is trying to be agnostic but is easy to talk to about religion. That leaves me, the Bible Believeing born again Christian. It should be noted that my parents gave us little instruction in religion while growing up, but we are all over the map as adults.

As a kid though I always had an inner respect and or couriosity about religion and the Bible. I wanted to read the Bible as a kid but didn't have the courage to ask my parents for one and when I started making money on my own I didn't just buy one because I thought my family would think I was nuts for just going out and buying a Bible. My oldest sister was baptised in the Baptist church and they gave her a Bible and I thought that was how a person went about getting one, join a church, get baptised and get your Bible.

When I left home for college at age 18, one of the first things I did was buy a Bible. Within 3 weeks of arriving on campus I started reading and attending church with some of my new college friends. There is a lot more to the story but my thinking has always been that the Bible is the manual of religion and faith and for some reason I never had to be convinced by anyone that faith and practice should be measured by what the Bible teaches and nothing else. So to this day, 35 years later I have many big thick books on "religion" and theology and I actually read them. I find it amusing that the WT will not tolerate members reading and studying other theologies or just the Bible alone because for me at least, the more I read about the cults and other christian belief systems, the firmer I stand with my beliefs which I would classify as evangelical, conservative Bible Believing in Jesus by faith alone in God's grace alone.

I commend you Silent for you honesty and candor. I pray that you find peace and inner happiness. I can tell you that it is in the Bible but you must find this out for yourself, "for by grace you have been saved through faith, this not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not by works least no man should boast" Eph 2:8-9

Take care,

Tom

47

Ramapo denies Jehovah's Witnesses tax exemption

by lrkr in

jw
friends

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20090503/news03/905030339&s=d&page=#pluckcomments.

.

this morning's paper- front page..

thomas15

I think that as long as the property is used for "Religious" Purposes then ultimately the tax exemption will stand. This is as long as they are able to get the land rezoned as needed.

It is of interest to note that where I live, the Catholic Diocese of Allentown PA has closed about 50 local churches in a consolidation move. The local tax collectors are looking to collect taxes on closed, unused churches. I think they (the tax collectors) will be successful but it will be interesting to see how it plays out, especially since the Allentown AD cannot afford to run them and there are not a whole lot of church building buyers out there at this time. Some of these buildings are high maintaince units and then there is the "Historical Value" of some of these buildings. This will put both the church and the county tax collectors in an awkward position.