Posts by ianao

44

How do you feel about smacking at K Hall?

by Latte in

personally, it upsets me very much.

or are there any other parents that found better, alternative ways of getting young children 'trained'?.

i am not anti -smacking by the way,(except at the kh) but it is always the very last resort.. latte

ianao

Jason:

I completely agree with you. Stern discipline is needed from time to time. What I don't agree with is smacking a child in the face because they can't sit still. there is a fine line between discipline and abuse. I did what my father told me to because I was afraid of him. Being beaten and put down every day will do that to a person. Some good did come of it as I got older but mostly it just gave me severe complexes that i can't seem to get over.

The utter irony of your words, and how they parallel with the theme of this discussion board.

Sorry to hear of your complexes Jason. I have my own to fight so I know what you are going through.

-ianao

4

What do you do when you are innocent???

by ladonna in

hi guys,.

i am feeling really down right now....in fact a couple of nights ago i felt like ending it all.

i know that some of you know that i work in the mental health industry, but when it comes to oneself it doesn't seem to work.. i am currently accused of being after someone's husband when i am not.. in fact i stupidly agreed to be his alibi so he could get some peace of mind from his wife by chatting to another woman.....yes he loves another woman, but his wife thinks it is me!!!!!.

ianao

ladonna:

I say let people enjoy their illusions. If you KNOW you didn't do it, then the other one is a fool.

Laugh about the stupidity involved if it makes you feel better.

44

How do you feel about smacking at K Hall?

by Latte in

personally, it upsets me very much.

or are there any other parents that found better, alternative ways of getting young children 'trained'?.

i am not anti -smacking by the way,(except at the kh) but it is always the very last resort.. latte

ianao

Jason:

You don't act meaner toward a child that disobeys more often. It's not the child's fault if he acts that way. Children reflect behavior they learned from their parents, or behavior they have developed by the way their parents treat them.

Sorry Jason, but my father's stern hand kept me in line. It also kept some of his grandchildren in line as well. He taught me kindness, caring, and love. But I have ALWAYS had a problem with authority from day one of my ability to socialize, according to BOTH parents. My father had to physically teach me to obey authority through SPANKINGS, but ONLY after I would not listen to reason. Let me tell you he only had to do it twice, and that's all it took for me to realize 'him daddy, me son'.

On the other hand, I have a set of nephews who have been OVERLY disciplined to the point that they have become somewhat 'immune' to the idea of discipline and consequently hate their mother and readily disobey her.

It seems to be a point of balance from my perspective. My father busted my rear-end a time or two, and I learned to listen when he speaks. If he did not do that then I would no doubt be just like my older brother is today, a no-good, lousy drunk with no respect for anyone.

Was my brother SPANKED when he would not listen? No. He was put in a corner with my own families special version of a dunce cap. I'm kind of grateful to my brother though, as he seemed to have taught my parents a valuable lesson on how to raise children, as my two older sisters seem to show.

Every child is different Jason. Not all serial killers come from broken homes. (Psych 101 teaches you those sort of things.)

-ianao

44

How do you feel about smacking at K Hall?

by Latte in

personally, it upsets me very much.

or are there any other parents that found better, alternative ways of getting young children 'trained'?.

i am not anti -smacking by the way,(except at the kh) but it is always the very last resort.. latte

ianao

BTW,

I personally feel that discipline should be administered to a child based on it's base personality.

If it's a selfish vindictive son-of-a-gun that disobeys (again), then INTIMMIDATE INTIMMIDATE INTIMMIDATE. If that doesn't work, then by all means don't go back on your word and SPANK SPANK SPANK.

If the child is loving and caring and just goes off the deep end, then GUILT TRIP, GUILT TRIP, GUILT TRIP.

Sorry to all of you non-spankers, but if my little one (supposing I were actually grown) were to look at me and laugh when I told it not to do something, it's getting popped for it! SORRY! I've seen too many cases here working for my local school system of children having NO discipline railroading their parents and being a general nuisance to everone else.

BTW: If I were in the KH, I would be "stepping outside" with my child.

44

How do you feel about smacking at K Hall?

by Latte in

personally, it upsets me very much.

or are there any other parents that found better, alternative ways of getting young children 'trained'?.

i am not anti -smacking by the way,(except at the kh) but it is always the very last resort.. latte

ianao

kenyata:

If you did hear about any thing like that going on in the congregation, they would be immediatley disfellowshipped and thrown in jail. Bold is mine

I would tend to agree that you hold this belief as nurtured in you by the elders of your congregation (the same people that DON'T tell you when it DOES happen). The big word is *IF* you hear about it.

They wouldn't be put out of the place of worship just to be put into another congregation, like most pastors, ministers are. They would allegedly supervise their every move.

In most "christiandom congs" that I have attended here in the USA, the molesting 'pastor/minister' is booted from that cong, and then the molester, when going to other congs (read, churches) cannot hold 'positions of responsibility' unless they have a clean CRIMINAL RECORD. So I tend to disagree with you on this matter.

I would love to hear about a elder or brother being punished because of such an unclean act, I'll be waiting for the day.

Yes, and on the day you DO hear about it, it may just be after one of your children have been molested. Then you will truly see why you never hear about it happening in your congregation as you are encouraged to keep your mouth SHUT about it happening.

The church people, from what I've seen and heard on the news get a slap on the wrist. Many times they do less than 6 months in jail, they get 10 years probation and have to pay a stupid fine.

And from what i've seen and heard from people directly or indirectly involved with various situations, many witness molesters get a mere slap on the wrist themselves (if the subject is even dealt with on the rare occasion that two witnesses "witnessed" the foul-play). Have you ever been in a judicial comittee meeting kenyata? Don't you ever wonder why they are even necessary? Have you ever wondered HOW a DF/DA'd one apostacised or HOW a DF'd one fornicated? You don't mind reading about the "gory details" in the news about other churches, why shouldn't you know the "gory details" about your own? Lemme guess, it's none of your BUSSINESS, right?

J's name is tarnished all the time when W's do things that they know is unacceptable.

No kidding.

Take a look at the website nelly has suggested. It will make for an interesting read, I can tell you that!

44

How do you feel about smacking at K Hall?

by Latte in

personally, it upsets me very much.

or are there any other parents that found better, alternative ways of getting young children 'trained'?.

i am not anti -smacking by the way,(except at the kh) but it is always the very last resort.. latte

ianao

kenyata:

I did not expect that you would hear a thing about molestations in your local congregation, especially when most occurrances are hidden from you by the elders for the sake of not tarnishing Jah's good name or that of his "christian congregation".

You don't hear of molestations/rape from Mormons either. Does that mean they don't occur? Of course not. It just means that they take special measures to ensure that they ARE NOT printed in the local newspaper. Why would they do that? So they can tell you when they are at your door: "Mormons don't do that sort of thing. We are a respectable people."

At least the other church groups are open about what goes on, instead of trying to cover it up and pretend it doesn't happen. I am personally glad when I hear about a catholic priest being arrested for child molestation as it means he is no longer on the street putting other kids at risk. I would rather hear about a church group turning in a criminal rather than discovering later that they knew about their activities and covered it up to keep it out of the headlines!

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

ianao

dunscot:

I have not responded to AlanF or Farkel, it is true. But my non-response has nothing to do with non-interest or inability. (Nevertheless, I will admit that I am only a midwife of ideas, unable to actually bring them to fruition in others, but I like to assist.) Unfortunately, I am not blessed with the attribute of ipseity. :-) I am one person and cannot adequately reply to every post. AlanF was remarkably genial, but he wrote a book. In case you have not noticed, there is one Duns on this forum, but a number of individuals interacting with the Scot. Furthermore, I do have a life outside of this forum. But I don't want to bore you with that story.

Ah, so that's how we do it now? If someone's response is too detailed, then we simply cannot answer it because we have a life outside this forum.

If this is the case, then why the long-winded petty-poop post to yours truly dunny? Could it be you felt intellectually adept at dealing with me, yet are intimidated by the likes of AlanF? (Not that I would blame you one bit for being so!)

At least have the descency to turn down AlanF's challenge instead of leaving the man hanging. He did respond to you in earnest. Does he not deserve the same from you, being as human as you are?

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

ianao

Beloved Dunscot:

You think that I am a Witness because 'I believe that is what I should be'? I think you have misunderstood me.

No, I've stated pretty much your own reasoning after reading through all of your fancy-pancy intellectual mumbo-jumbo. You can't fool me buddy-boy. You can rationalize it any way you like, but your posts ring loud and clear.

Here is my stance on this matter. Personally, I think that objective criteria primarily governs my choice to remain a Witness.

That's nice. Just as objective criteria governs my choice to remain a non-witness.

There are a number of factors that caused me to become a Witness; some factors were objective, while others were subjective. At any rate, I now think that I can point to Scripture and show another rational agent that Witnesses have the truth.

Ah, wonderful. So you can make decisions regarding your spirituality the same way you pick your favorite baseball team.

In point of fact, this event happens all the time: A Witness somewhere around the world daily shows an autonomous subject some scriptural point that causes the hearer or subject to experience "insight learning." In other words, the hearer has an "aha!" experience. Similar events are recorded in the biblical book of Acts (Acts 17 & 18), indicating that Christianity is in some sense objective from a doctrinal standpoint.

Okie dokie. The same thing happens within a "christiandom" church as well.

My point is that my reasons for being a Witness are objective, I think (cogito). I think that I can point to Scripture and show why the rational agent encountering the word of Christ that I preach should become a Witness.

Pardon the expression, but "no shit sherlock".

Then why isn't everyone that hears the word convinced? Why aren't people coming into the organization by the gadzillions? As you well know, there are many reasons why most people do not respond to the good news preached by the Witnesses. While I will not discuss these reasons at the moment, I think I've demonstrated that which is to be demonstrated.

Hmmm... Looks like everything you are telling me is from your own skewed perspective. You know, this would REALLY sound better coming from someone who became a witness, left the witnesses for doctrinal reasons, and then was reinstated after deciding that the witness doctrine was indeed correct. Coming from an active witness such as yourself, well, it seems skewed by ignorance and/or cognitive disconnance (SP!).

While my reasons for being a Witness are objective in my eyes, that does not mean that I can successfully communicate the said reasons to you. So what?

So that means that you should re-think your own line of thinking, especially if it is so cloudy that you are unsure of how to portray it to others.

I think my being awake typing on this keyboard right now is an objective reality. Does that mean that I can apodictically prove that I am in fact awake right now and presently tapping the keys on this faithful old board?

Hmm... Your post was not here a few hours ago, and now it is. Looks like you were the one who actually posted (unless of course, more than one person posts on your account.)

Descartes says that I cannot. Furthermore, Alvin C. Plantinga notes that we cannot prove there are other minds either. Nor can I prove (apodictically) that I have been alive longer than five minutes. Saul Kripke also discusses the Wittgensteinian skeptic, who may make us wonder if we can prove that 2 + 2 = 4. I have actually attended college with certain persons who thought that you cannot "prove" such a proposition, even if it is true.

How fascinating. Is this an attempt to parallel witness teachings to something fundamental to a human being's thinking instinct? The point escapes me. Oh wait a minute, you have invested a bunch of money into these classes right?

To end this email, I will just observe that I think JWs believe many true propositions that can only be apprehended under certain epistemic conditions.

Translation: "You have to believe the bullshit, often ignoring evidence to the contrary."

For instance, an argument must not only be valid or sound, it must also be compelling and cogent. In order for you to be convinced of my beliefs, you yourself must concur with certain basic beliefs of mine: My argument must seem cogent to you.

To reiterate (sp?): "No shit sherlock".

If you do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God or that God exists, etc., then my logical demonstration would simply be signifiers in the wind.

Wrong. Technically, if I did not believe that the bible is the word of God, yet a creator did indeed exist, then your "logical demonstrations" would still be "signifiers in the wind". Now, if I did not believe that any God exists, your "logical demonstrations" would definately be "signifiers in the wind".

My inability to convince someone via argument does not mean that a Christian JW believer lacks objective criteria for certain tenets he or she holds.

Of course not, it just means you have a bad argument.

Paul Davies (famed astrophysicist) once claimed that there are certain things we know are true, but we cannot authenticate such facts. I think I somewhat agree with Mr. Davies. :-)

Right, and I personally consider such things as "beliefs".

THE END

GOOD!!!

Next time dunny, please get to the frigging point. I hate having to read all of this intellectual pittle-pucky just to discover that you've basically farted and fanned the gas away. Thank you.

137

Freedom of Thought and JW Opposers

by dunsscot in

jw
friends

does freedom of thought really obtain in this forum?

are those who have left god's organization and jehovah god himself actually now more open-minded and unbiased?

if those who espouse atheistic thoughts or those who believe every vile utterance spoken against jehovah's people think they are now speaking from some olympian perspective, i beg to differ.

ianao

dunscot:

I must say that I am mildly amused of not somewhat impressed with your ability to very intelligently spout forth the very same crap that I have heard every other true-blue witness preach on this forum: "I am a witness because it's what I believe I should be".

What a long-winded way of telling us just about the very same thing conceptually that a member of "christiandom" tells you as they are slamming the door in your face!

Big flipping deal.

17

What Will Occur In 2012 When Mayan Calender Ends?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

what will occur in 2012 when the mayan calendar ends?

when people say the mayan calendar ends in 2012, they're referring to the end of one 5125-year cycle that began in 3114 b.c.

this cycle ends on december 21, 2012 (although some peg the date as the 22nd), marking the end of the mayan cyclical calendar.

ianao

logical:

Are they really brother and sister? I had no idea!

That explains a bunch!