Posts by ianao

71

God's will or free will?

by thinker in

i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.

if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.

think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.

ianao

logical:

Tell me, what do you want MDS to say? That you are all right, and what you are doing is fine by Jehovah? Will you be happy then? Hearing what you want to hear?

I don't care about what mds says. And you should take A GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF, because you are pretty darn happy hearing what YOU want to hear from YOUR 'IDOL'. (And I i'm not talking about God either).

Yes, and what a shame all his faith is misplaced.

And what a shame that you can't handle that someone else doesn't agree with you.

Why are you all so afraid of the truth? Does it sting? Nag? Your conciense gets overactive? Do you think "hmmm, theres something about this message, but I dont want to change my ways, but it wont go away... what shall I do? ... ah, I know, i'll attack the person who is conveying the message, that way, drag the person down the message goes with him"

And unfortunately, AGAIN, you are unable to see what I, and MANY others CAN see. That YOU need to take a darn good look at yourself. But just like the average rank and file JW, you set double standards that you are unable to apply to yourself. You prejudge others by your OWN PERCEIVED VALUES. That YOU have derived from a book. Perhaps I can say the same thing to you:

Perhaps the truth hurts YOU.

Perhaps it nags YOU.

Perhaps YOUR concience get's OVERACTIVE.

Perhaps YOU are thinking: "hmmm, theres something about this message, but I dont want to change my ways, but it wont go away... what shall I do? ... ah, I know, i'll attack the person who is conveying the message, that way, drag the person down the message goes with him".

I pitty you. You haven't learned that your values are derived from what you perceive as reality. Maybe when and *if* you do learn this simple concept, you will be able to utter these words:

"this is my opinion"

And you won't be so judgemental of others. (And yes, unfortunately, judging others by what YOU perceive as God's standards is STILL being JUDGEMENTAL, no matter how you try to rationalize it. God didn't decide to condemn the person you spoke with, YOU DID!)

62

Child Molestation

by Friend in

following is a slightly improved version of something i posted onto various web site forums a few months ago.

i hope it helps those working so hard on this subject.

what is revealed about the societys motivations regarding reporting (or not) of child abuse to secular authorities?

ianao

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

11

God in a box

by aChristian in

jw
friends

as one of jehovah's witnesses for many years i was, of course, fully opposed to the idea that the god of the bible was a "triune" god.

for the first couple years after leaving the witnesses i continued to hold strong anti-trinity views.

a few years ago i accepted jesus christ as my personal lord and savior.

ianao

aChristian: Your serve... (j/k)

71

God's will or free will?

by thinker in

i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.

if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.

think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.

ianao

mds:

Have this clear in your mind...

If a slave, no matter how much he loves the master, is doing his master's will with the understanding that disobedience will be severely punished, then the slave truly has no free will. He has a will of his own mind you, but it isn't a free will, it's a conditional one. (He either does the master's will, or he is punished for it.)

I will not further re-iterate (sp?) any other thing said to you mds. Clearly you do not see my point, and clearly I do not see yours.

logical:

Now, tell me, what use are WORLDLY philosophies, uninspired man-made writings, compared to DIVINELY INSPIRED Biblical writings?

Logical, I hate to break it to you, but the only difference between other worldy philosophies/writings and the ones that you go by is the fact that you BELIEVE that God divinely inspired the words. Have you ever thought, that if for thousands of years, ever since the first five books of the OT was cannonized, that if people sincerely BELIEVED that what they were reading was the word of God, that TO THOSE PEOPLE, it WOULD be the word of God? No, you've never thought of that. It was handed to YOU *AS* the word of God. You never KNEW until someone TOLD you. The only reason that you believe it's divinely inspired is because someone else told you that it was. You've read the book on that premace (sp?), and now you are THOROUGHLY convinced that it is divinely inspired. If you have children, you will no doubt teach them what you know now. Now go back in time and look at how the word of God could be passed down again and again from generation to generation and remain nearly unchanged because almost everyone who came in contact with it believed what they were told about it's divine inspiration.

You keep telling me that I need FAITH, however I remind YOU that you put your FAITH in these WORDS that have been handed down by many many generations. And the fact of the matter is that many of the NT writings to which you hold so dear contain words/phrases/idioms that contradict your view of the God that you dearly love.

aChristian was an excellent example of that. In the 'Spiritual Israel' thread, jr, mds (and possibly others) kept barraging him with 'prophetic definitions' and he kept coming back with his notions of a 'God of Love', and you all, no matter what you tried, COULD NOT BREAK THROUGH THE BARRIER OF *FAITH* THAT HE HAS in Jesus Christ. His Faith in a loving God could NOT be broken in favor of your 'totalitarian conditioning' notions of God.

aChristian has just as much FAITH in his view of God as you have in yours. FAITH is relative to what you believe. So PLEASE quit telling me to have faith in what you believe. It's not going to happen.

Your mentality, and others with opposing views of the same Biblical God has been the cause of death and suffering in ages past. You take a persecuted religion and put it in power, and it turns from the perscuted to the persecutor.

You, my dear judgemental friend, are a prime example of what I am talking about. I could just IMAGINE someone like you in a position of authority.

Edited by - ianao on 14 March 2001 9:23:15

71

God's will or free will?

by thinker in

i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.

if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.

think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.

ianao

Nice post MDS.

However, you are missing the entire point of the discussion.

Fact of the matter is, according to the Bible, if you don't go God's way, then you will be destroyed. We are not talking about a choice between paper or plastic, we are talking about life or death.

Anyone who is a sensible thinker will SEE that their really is no choice if you want to live your life by God's Word.

It's like a witness trying to get by with wilfully taking a blood transfusion and then refusing to willfully disassociate themself. It looks like a choice, smells like a choice, but in the heart of the matter, there is no choice if one wishes to stay in the congregation. By his action, he has shown a decision to a choice that he really did not have in the first place!

It's analogous (sp?) to being a member of a social club. You have to follow the rules to stay in the club, otherwise, you are OUT OF THERE.

Plain and simple.

But the stakes (Biblicly) speaking are MUCH HIGER than social status, it is life or death.

SURE they can use their "free will" to choose the opposing side of the pole (*WINK WINK*), but if they do, then they will be destroyed. So the free will to decide whether or not to stick with God is really mute, because they know the consequences for NOT sticking with him is to die.

If a slave, no matter how much he loves the master, is doing his master's will with the understanding that disobedience will be severely punished, then the slave truly has no free will. He has a will of his own mind you, but it isn't a free will, it's a conditional one. (He either does the master's will, or he is punished for it.)

Edited by - ianao on 13 March 2001 18:59:18

16

Knorr and the Masonic Temple

by Kent in

jw
friends

knorr and the masonic temple.

what went wrong with the masons?.

in 1950 they were in favour with the org but by the 70's they were part of b the g.. who decided and when.. "presidential visit to northern south america".

ianao

Deacon, Englishman:

ROTFLMAO

11

God in a box

by aChristian in

jw
friends

as one of jehovah's witnesses for many years i was, of course, fully opposed to the idea that the god of the bible was a "triune" god.

for the first couple years after leaving the witnesses i continued to hold strong anti-trinity views.

a few years ago i accepted jesus christ as my personal lord and savior.

ianao

Well, that's fine. My lack of logic is your sensibility. Your lack of logic is my sensibility. Fair enough.

I do know His name. His name today is Jesus Christ.

Interesting, so it is your contention that Jesus wanted to sanctify his OWN name, despite the fact that he referred to his Father's name. This could be so, if you ignore the fact that Jesus was God's Son. (i.e. they were in that relationship). I wonder how Father God feels about that?

Believe what you want about my logic, but you are contradicting (sp?) your own doctrine. But hey, it is your right to hide your lack of logic (as I perceive it) behind God's veil should you choose to do so.

I will admit, it seems to be nothing but a way to rectify scriptural contradictions. If one line of scripture contradicts another, you change your thinking. It's just too bad that you have to depend on the neo-platonic greek writing style of John in order to substantiate your beliefs. It's really no different from the witnesses who depend on Paul's writings to substantiate their own. Witnesses just seemed to have substantiated beliefs than the average Christian never had to cognize.

Fascinating.

Well, I'll refrain from getting in a big argument over things, as I don't have the time and whip out my bible and start quoting scriptures that say that God is not a God of confusion. (As apparently he is, to some extent).

Thanks for answering the question. I like your reasoning too, as all I can do at this point is denounce your sincereity to God (as I would perceive it), or ridicule your own critical thinking skills. I could also point out that since you and I are both human, and since God put his word here for us in a readable fashion that we are supposed to apply our logic, as it was written to us, through us, FOR us, but I won't go down that route.

I peronally think we are BOTH guilty of putting God in a "box". Your box isn't so different from mine, yours just has room for three people!

Take care.

Edited by - ianao on 13 March 2001 18:0:48

16

Knorr and the Masonic Temple

by Kent in

jw
friends

knorr and the masonic temple.

what went wrong with the masons?.

in 1950 they were in favour with the org but by the 70's they were part of b the g.. who decided and when.. "presidential visit to northern south america".

ianao

JAVA:

Sorry about the manon comment. (I didn't know).

71

God's will or free will?

by thinker in

i've heard many people tell me about bible prophesy.

if the bible can predict future events then it stands to reason that those events are predetermined and man has no choices in this world.

think about all the choices you've made in your life and how different life for you would be if you had done things differently.

ianao

bjc2012:

Pardon my interruption, but I think you are missing Rih's point.

You mention sin being "introduced", but you neglected to name the SOURCE.

The fact is, according to the Bible, God made ALL THINGS. This includes Jesus, the angels (including satan). This also includes the tree of 'forbidden fruit' that God placed in the garden of Eden.

Reign's whole point is that according to the Bible, God made everything.

People keep talking about how evil satan is, but they forget that God gave satan the ability to BE evil by giving him this so-called 'free-will'. If God had NOT given satan a choice, he would NOT have had the opportunity to become evil.

(Oh, and please don't lecture me about how good it was that God gave the devil the choice of whether to follow him or not, because all who are not following God are going to be destroyed in the end. Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me.)

People also keep talking about how bad Adam and Eve were for disobeying God, when technically at the time the serpent spoke with them, they did NOT know right from wrong. Then, after disobeying God (a good/evil concept they did NOT know because they had not partook of the fruit), they are punished for doing something that they only understood the repurcussions of AFTER they had disobeyed and partook of the fruit.

Sure God warned them, but what merrit is a warning that "you will surely die" going to have to folks who did NOT know that death was a bad thing?

It seems that God punished all of us humans because we disobeyed him when logically we would NOT have known that it was BAD to disobey him before we had already disobeyed. Hence Reign's earlier reference to a "set up".

Adam and Eve were punished for listening to the serpent when they were not given the ability to discern that it was WRONG to do so.

This is WHY I call this entire topic the psychological paradox of creation.

Edited by - ianao on 13 March 2001 14:29:59

16

Knorr and the Masonic Temple

by Kent in

jw
friends

knorr and the masonic temple.

what went wrong with the masons?.

in 1950 they were in favour with the org but by the 70's they were part of b the g.. who decided and when.. "presidential visit to northern south america".

ianao

larc:

Piedmont-Triad area.

JAVA: (Hello again, BTW)

The Manons rent their temples out to groups all the time as a way of earning extra income.

What the heck is a Manon? (j/k)