Posts by wantingtruth

5

break away churches of Jehovahs wittnesses?

by highdose in

i have definatly seen in london uk a church with the title of " the real church of the worshippers of jehovah".

is this comman?

does anyone know of anymore?.

break away churches of Jehovahs wittnesses?

by highdose in

i have definatly seen in london uk a church with the title of " the real church of the worshippers of jehovah".

is this comman?

does anyone know of anymore?.

WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??

by Witness 007 in

could be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.

" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.

{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!

wantingtruth

regarding the lenght of a creative day...

How interesting is the man ! and his mind !
he wants to know all -- even the things God doesn't disclose to us - so I was !

But God has His own way to be : he "conceals" his things !
Proverbs 25 :
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

The Bible searchers know for sure
--that God created Adam at the end of the sixth creative day
--that immediately (may be some years) after Adam's creation the seventh day begun

-- but never told God to us how long is a creative day !
-- never is told that at the end of the (seventh ) millenium, the seventh creative day is finished also !
I never found that !

All what humans (christians) did , was to suppose and to interpretise by themselves the chronologies (the private interpretation) , also the lenght of the creative day !
No one on earth can say that "the Spirit of truth/of God" helped him to find how long is a creative day !

So , the conclusion is , we merely humans don't know how long is a creative day, it is something what belongs to God .
It can be so long , as to "cover" back the time "found" by scientifical means .

friendly, rus v.

26

Did you know the End started in 1799?

by jwfacts in

yes, it sounds crazy doesn't yet.

if a religion went around preaching that today no one would take them seriously, and yet that is what the watchtower used to preach.

"the "time of the end," a period of one hundred and fifteen (115) years, from a.d. 1799 to a.d. 1914, is particularly marked in the scriptures.

wantingtruth

I knew that !

in fact , it is the "way of reasoning" about prophecies which is "responsible" for all the datas ... the same reasoning...

...aplying one year for every day of some "periods" found in Bible ,

and then finding some historical events from where to start to count these numbers of years ,

and we have had "plenty" of datas...

2

Questions related to the "70 years"

by Doug Mason in

this post, although about the "70 years", is not about the accuracy or otherwise of dates assigned to that period.

rather, this post is about the nature of the biblical record that we now have.. (1) much discussion, from myself included, centres on the meaning of the declaration at jer 25:11-12. since the lxx and the mt of these verses are different (indeed of the whole of jer 25), does this affect the intent of these verses?

does the fact that differences do exist between these accepted sources diminish the value of these verses for the wts as a key foundation of its existence?.

wantingtruth

Hi DM

I see , the 70 years are related with Babylon / Jer. 29:10 /

and with Jerusalym Zecariah 1:12

If we want to understand this according to Jesus , we have to seek the "spiritually" understand of the issue, because Jesus put/set the "foundation" for this kind of understanding of the prophecies , which is part of the new kind of worshiping God ..with spirit and truth" .

this 70 years period is related with the Great Tribulation which come over the saints in the "latter days" according with the rule given by God Himself to Daniel , and to which Christ Himself was obeing

Daniel 10:

14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days; for the vision is yet for many days:

so , we as "seekers" of God's word have to seek for -- who is Daniel's people and when are the "latter days"..

23

The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus

by wantingtruth in

john said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?

--------the kingdom of god---------- .

"the kingdom of god is near.

wantingtruth

well , I need to repeat the link here

23

The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus

by wantingtruth in

john said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?

--------the kingdom of god---------- .

"the kingdom of god is near.

wantingtruth

Y Y 2 , regarding the "latter days" and God's people

I invite you to read some words here

23

The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus

by wantingtruth in

john said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?

--------the kingdom of god---------- .

"the kingdom of god is near.

wantingtruth

Yadda yadda , thank you for this question - is a very good question

as it was told , in 33AD Jesus started using his "all power" in Heaven

all prophecies , all the rest of the Bible regarding His "coming" are pointing to the action of starting to reign over earth , or "reigning in the midst of his enemies"

so, not only Matthew 24 and 25 , but also all Revelation are pointing to events and actions in wich God's people and His saints are involved in , a little before and during the Kingdom's installation on earth,

as apostle Paul said

Romans 9

28 for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

in fact , what is the second coming of Jesus ? --- it means exactly "the coming" on earth of the heavenly kingdom (or the extension of his ruling and using 'all authority" ) , as we were taught in the prayer "Let your kingdom come , let your will be done as in heavens , so on earth."

wantingtruth

23

The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus

by wantingtruth in

john said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?

--------the kingdom of god---------- .

"the kingdom of god is near.

wantingtruth

In order for us to understand the weight of Jesus words , which words were contradicted by WTS

(and we were educated according to wts doctrines )

it is wery important for us to find the place decided by God for the "teaching of Christ"

The "teaching of Christ " - what is it , and why it is so important ?

2 John 1:
9. "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."

God's spirit lead us to see the importance given by Jehovah Himself to Christ's teaching !

But first , what is this teaching ?

-- Jesus answered to us :
John 7
16. Jesus answered, " My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me ."

Again we see , apostle John wrote leaded by spirit (John 1 )
17. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. "

Jesus Himself said regarding to all His Father's word (including the written word in the O. T. ) :
John 17:
17. "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth . "

The question is : if God's word in O.T. is truth , why ap. John said "...the truth came through Jesus Christ" ?

As we can see , the knowledge/teaching God has sent through His Son has priority, or has a special importance !

Not Jesus , nor ap. John decided that , but Jehovah Himself !

Let us hear His voice :
Matthew 17 :
5."While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said,
"This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

Now , what is to be understood through the expression "teaching of Christ" (only a part of what He preached)? Let Him answer to us :
Mathew 28 :
20. " and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matt.28.

Apostle Paul agrees with this priority/importance given by Jehovah to the teaching of Christ:
Hebrews 1 :
1. "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe..... ."

also Hebrews 12 :
24. to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25. See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven ? "

It has been prophesied that in the "latter days" there will be a certain action inside/within God's people :
Daniel 8 :
10. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.
11. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
12. Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13.Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?"

14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."

As we can see ,the truth is thrown down during the 2300 evenings and mornings. God's promise is , "then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."

The action of reconsacrating takes place when Jesus is present at the Temple !

When Jesus begins his action , He finds "the truth"-the correct understanding of His teaching-- down !

So He have to re-put His teaching to the place decided by Jehovah Himself !

It is written at Acts 3 :
21."He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

When Jesus starts his second presence , He does like that :
Revelation 3 :
20. "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me."

Also in Luke 12 :
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching:
verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them sit down to meat, and shall come and serve them.

What do you think He will serve at the table to those watching when He comes ?

-- Exactly the correct understanding of "the teaching of Christ" !

................................................................................................................................................................

--------THE KINGDOM OF GOD----------

Jesus preached this Kingdom as it follows:
Matthew 4 :
17. From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Mark 1:
15. "The time has come," he said.
"The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

WHAT is God's Kingdom ?

According to Jesus words
Matthew 6 :
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done , as in heaven, so on earth.

.. .we see that His Kingdom means the state where His will is done !

And surely it implies a certain order made by God .

This "order" means a certain structure of authority between God's heavenly and earthly creatures, of course , made by God, or according to His will !

So, Jesus named this kingdom as being
-- OF GOD and
-- OF HEAVEN

What means that ?
Of course, it means
-- this kingdom belongs to God (YHWH ), it originates from HIM !
-- its place of birth is in Heaven , there is its capital city of residence , from there it will be extended all over the God's creations .

That means , the Kingdom of Heaven CAN EXIST IN HEAVEN even not being come yet on earth.

But what the "Heaven" is ?

People often would think it is all the space from where human eye cannot see further.
Well , let us see a scripture :
Psalm 33 :
13. From heaven the LORD looks down
and sees all mankind;
14. from his dwelling place he watches
all who live on earth-

Job 1 :
6. One day the angels came to present themselves
before the LORD , and Satan also came with them.

So , when the Kingdom of God and of Heaven gets start , it start in Heaven, where is God's "dwelling place" , and "before the Lord" where sometime the angels present themselves....

Now let us see Jesus teaching about this kingdom...:

-- "the Kingdom of Heaven is near"... means it was THEN near , when Jesus was on earth !

--(Matt.12:28 ) : But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

... that means God's kingdom WAS ACTIVE in Heaven at the moment when Jesus was speaking/ when He was on earth !

YES , when Jesus WAS on earth the Kingdom WAS active in Heaven , even it was not fully installed ": the future King was on earth , not raised at God's right side yet !

John 18:
37. "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king .

...Jesus was King then !

Furthermore Jesus taught his followers how to pray the Father
Matthew 6:
10. Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

IF we believe that Jesus words are the truth ,
then we believe that He taught us that
as the Kingdom was already on Heaven,
and God's will was done there,
our prayer(and desire also) to be :.."let (this God's order and state where His will is done) come on earth"

surely Jesus did not say "Thy will be done ..on earth ..as it will be done in Heaven some time in the future.."

Now we can correctly understand what Jesus meant when He said
Matthew 16 :
28. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.

The Son of Man was seen "coming" into His Kingdom at Pentecosta , when the earth / his followers on earth / received the confirmation from the Holy Spirit that He has been exalted and enthroned - in full power in Heaven - !

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS ??
WHEN WHERE THEY THROWN OUT OF HEAVEN ??

--(John 12:31) "Now is the time for judgment on this world;
now the prince of this world will be driven out....

... where out ? literally stick on earth ?
-- NOT ! but "driven out from "God's dwelling place", out from "before the Lord" where they could go before Jesus came on earth !

--( Luke 10:18 ) He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

-- apostle John said regarding Satan using past tense :
...( Rev 9:1 ) "The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth."

WHILE Jesus was on earth He was spiritually fighting against Satan , but the very moment of overcoming him was at the moment of His death !
-- a short time before His martirio , Jesus said (John 16:33)
"...I have overcome the world." -- inclusive its god !

Apostle Paul agrees with that Colossians 2:15:
"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

So it is absolutely sure ,
The Kingdom of God and of Heaven get started in HEAVEN at that time when Jesus accomplished his service on earth , and immediate after his resurrection He received all power !

Jesus said ( Matthew 28 )
18. Then Jesus came to them and said,
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
What could retain Jesus from using all authority
starting with that time ?
-- Nothing could retain Jesus from using this authority in Heaven !

BUT as concerns earth , YES , something retained Him !
IT was Father's will - as prophetically exprimed in Psalm 110
1. The LORD says to my Lord: ( at His enthronement )
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet. "

Well , but WHY this scripture is to be applied only concerning the earth , and not also for Heaven ?
-- IT IS because we believe Jesus' teaching !
-- HE taught us that His enemies were already thrown out of "Heaven" at the moment of His exalting at the right side of the Glory

Well , at Pentecosta ,the Holy Spirit enlightened the first christians to understand ..(Acts 2 )as Peter said :

32. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
33. Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
34. For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
"'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35. until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

36. "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this:
God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. "

Well , here the word "KING" did not appear , but Jesus being "exalted to the right hand of God" and using "all authority in Heaven" , IT MEANS HE WAS KING IN HEAVEN !....as He said it to Pilat...

BUT REGARDING EARTH ??

Jesus said he received also "all power on earth".
So , was it something who retained Christ from using His "all power" on earth ?
-- YES ! It was YHWH' will , exprimed prophetically in Psalm 110:1 and correctly quoted and understood by apostle Peter at Pentecosta !
..........................................................................................................

Now , we are able to understand correctly God's words in Psalm 110:1,2
1. The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

2. The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion;
you will rule in the midst of your enemies.

God said to Jesus "sit at my right hand" that is
--to sit on throne and to use/exercise "all power recently received" IN THE HEAVEN , ruling as KING ,
--BUT to wait regarding the earth " until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." !
How so ?

As Jesus taught us already , in Heaven were not enemy at His exalting moment , they were OUT OF HEAVEN !
OUT of the place were the Kingdom was ruling !

BUT WHERE were they ?

--ON EARTH -- the visible enemies ,
-- and "in heavenly realms" the invisible ones , as ap.Paul said in Ephesians 6 :
12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,
against the powers of this dark world and against the
spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Well, are not this "heavenly realms" "the Heaven" where the Kingdom is ?
NOT !
As I said , THE HEAVEN where God's Kingdom is ruling , is "before the Lord" and Devil with his followers are somewhere FAR AWAY (beyond) FROM THAT PLACE !

Now we see that the following God's words "until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
... referes to the time and situation when YHWH will give both the permission and the commandment to His King to START REIGNING OVER THE EARTH , where the enemies are now !

That action of His starting reigning over earth is prophetically shown by the words "Christ returning" or "Christ's (second)coming".

These knowledges debated here are necessaries for further understanding of other prophetical passages and prophecies which are to happen on earth , as the Revelation 12 for instance .

Because Christ started ruling in Heaven immediately after his ressurection , according to the"teaching of Christ", there is no place for such interpretation which leads to 1874 or 1914 or other years as the time for Christ starting to rule in Heaven.

with great respect for Jehovah, and His enthroned King , Jesus Christ ,

wantingtruth .

3

The Great Tree - 7 Times of Daniel = 1914?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the 7 times of daniel = jesus returning invisibly in 1914 and being enthroned in heaven?.

daniel 4:23-33 (new world translation):.

23 and because the king beheld a watcher, even a holy one, coming down from the heavens, who was also saying: chop the tree down, and ruin it.

wantingtruth

the correct interpretation of a prophecy must be based on Jesus' testimony , on Jesus teaching .

and Jesus teached that the Kingdom was set in Heavens at the time of His first coming (clik here and read posts 28,30 )

the purpose of His second coming remained to be ... the "bringing" on earth (or its extension over the earth ) of this Heavenly Kingdom

so, the interpretation given by society to Daniel 6 is not based on Christ teaching and not from God