Are Jw's God's Organization?

by wantingtruth in

here i will quote a post written by "littleone" on another forum:.

when that original congregation apostasized, it formed the roman catholic church.

was it that the roman catholic church was jehovah's organization?

wantingtruth

The first post in this topic was a quote of a person I appreciate much .

Here I will express with my words how I see the situation, after reading the Scriptures:

---------------

~~~ Jehovah's Organization -- how did Jesus called it ? ~~~

.

I have read the Bible .

I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an "organization" on earth .

The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement.

BUT, what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !

God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.

And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !

WHAT is God's Organization (Kingdom) ?

According to Jesus words in Matthew 6 :10

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth."

...we understand that His Organization (Kingdom) means the "state" or the "arrangement" where His will is done [not only at the declarative level]....

... and where God's authority is manifested >>> that implies that in God's Kingdom the willful sinner (or God's opponents) will not enter! - 1 Corinthians 6:9 / Psalms 101: 8.

...

And furthermore, Jesus has taught us that Father’s will is that this [Heavenly] Kingdom to come on earth.

And he taught us to pray for that.

And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”

That is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet ( we are still praying for it to come) !

Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?

He says He has a people ! ... Acts 15:14 / Titus 2:14

But has He always had “a people” on earth ?

NO ! because the history of His chosen people begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.

So, before of that event God had individuals and "family" .

When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a "people". Genesis 46:6,27.

And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them ... Ezekiel 18:4

“Behold, all souls are Mine;

the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine

The soul who sins will die."

What is God doing “always” is as it follows :

"The LORD looks down from heaven

on all mankind

to see if there are any who understand,

any who seek God."

Psalm 14:2.

So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not "organization"!

Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to come .

And how does He did it ?

To the "two greatest commandments" (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the "center" of the "Christian community".

As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:

He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:

“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

John 13:34,35.

Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !

There was never need for a human "organization" to keep His faithful ones united !

That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).

Within this (worldwide) "community" (or eklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.

==========

Regarding the much used phrase: “God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:

Job 34:29

"When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?

And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,

>>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. "

So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)...

... while He may be "at peace" with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be "angered" over His nation , as a "whole"

... while He may be "at peace" with His "people" , He may manifest His anger over a certain "individual" who proves to be "law transgressor"

Wantingtruth.

74

Doctrines and Bible Interpretations

by IWant2Know in

i would like to know if ex's and formers who are not church christians, believe that many of jws' doctrines and bible interpretations are correct, or do you feel that they aren't?

.

wantingtruth

Quote: "I would like to know if ex's and formers who are not church Christians, believe that many of JWs' doctrines and Bible interpretations are correct, or do you feel that they aren't?"

-----------

I would like to express what I have been taught from Bible , on matter ....

(an input on Bible's prophecies regarding the latter days)

Let consider that my english language's knowledges level is low , so have patience while reading ....

https://thelatterdayschronology.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-latter-days-chronology-after.html

------------------------------

see also a list of scriptures concerning "God's people"...

https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1596983540587058

15

Are Jw's God's Organization?

by wantingtruth in

here i will quote a post written by "littleone" on another forum:.

when that original congregation apostasized, it formed the roman catholic church.

was it that the roman catholic church was jehovah's organization?

wantingtruth

Here I will quote a post written by "littleone" on another forum:

>>>>

When that original congregation apostasized, it formed the Roman Catholic Church.

Was it that the Roman Catholic Church was Jehovah's organization? No. But it itself did hold Jehovah's anointed within it, did it not? What about the reformation periods? Jehovah still had his faithful anointed scattered thoughout the various sects and denominations of the nominal church.

Was it that the baptists were God's organization? Was it that the anglican church, the presbyterian church, the adventist church, the pentecostal chuch, or any other church was to be considered Jehovah's earthly organization? No. But we do know that these various denominations had Jehovah's anointed within them. Likewise, even today, we know that Jehovah has anointed within the Jehovah's Witness congregations, but does that in itself mean that the WTBTS is Jehovah's earthly organization? Of course not.

It can be said that these various anointed belong to Jehovah's heavenly organization, but it cannot be said that the earthly organization of Jehovah's Witnesses itself is God's organization. For we ourselves gathered here, at this site, also claim that we have anointed present, do we not? But do we dare declare ourselves as Jehovah's new earthly organization? Perhaps we should start writing posts to praise the e-jehovahs-witnesses.com website, declaring it as Jehovah's new earthly organization... telling people that they can only find salvation through this website... may that never happen!

Likewise, how many here are active members of Jehovah's Witnesses? Of course there are some. But many here were either disfellowshipped, which means they were kicked out and therefore no longer members of Jehovah's Witnesses, or they disassociated themselves, which also means they're no longer members of Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, we have members here who never were Jehovah's witnesses to begin with... like myself. But of those who are disfellowshipped, disassociated, or who never became members of Jehovah's Witnesses, are we all to be considered OUTSIDE of Jehovah's organization? May that never happen! For if that is the case, then WOE to us! For we have found ourselves as opposers of Jehovah himself!

This is also why everything that was carefully concealed within that organization is now being revealed. The "proof" that was used to show that the Jehovah's Witness organization was indeed Jehovah's earthly organization has now perished.

It has been revealed from heaven that the claims made about 1914-1918 are NOT SO.

It has been revealed from heaven that Jesus did not come in 1914-1918 to cleanse the temple.

It has been revealed from heaven that Jesus did not come in 1914-1918 to appoint the "faithful slave" over all of his belongings.

His "belongings" by the way also include those god fearing people of the "nominal church". Rather, what has it revealed? Transgression. Transgression against whom? Jesus Christ and Jehovah God. Transgression by whom? By those who made these claims to begin with, and by those who refuse to be reproved today concerning those claims.

Jehovah's organization is that which it has always been since Pentecost 33 CE. It is still comprised of Jesus Christ as its foundation cornerstone, the Apostles and prophets as its foundation stones, and Jehovah's anointed being harmoniously joined together to be built up together for a place for Jehovah to inhabit with spirit. Anyone who is a part of this heavenly organization has no fear of being kicked out of any earthly organization... for their organization is that which is in the heavens, and has nothing to do with any earthly organization.

Jesus did say that whenever two or more are gathered "in his name" (let the reader discern that I did not say "those who claim to gather in his name"), that he himself will be there. Likewise, Jehovah himself will be there with spirit and power. It does not matter what earthly organization these ones are apart of, for Jehovah recognizes none except the one in which he himself established through his son Jesus Christ... that organization is a heavenly one. This organization is also extensively organized, because it has Jesus Christ as its head. He himself is now alive and acting as head and Master over this heavenly organization... a perfect governor, one ruling to perfection those whom look to him for salvation.

I am not trying to prove that Jehovah's Witnesses are not god's people.... for I believe that all persons belong to him.

But one may ask: "Where was Jehovah's earthly organization before CT Russell and the Bible Students came along?"

The answer that most Jehovah's witnesses would give is that Jehovah during that time had faithful anointed followers that were "scattered about" throughout the various religious organizations of the times. And that these ones themselves were apart of his organization. I doubt any Witnesses would say that his earthly organization was the various churches of Christendom themselves during that time.... rather, they would say that Jehovah's organization was separate from that. Likewise, on that same thought, I contend that Jehovah's Organization now is the same one that existed even back then.... separate from ANY earthly organization.

Likewise, I also believe that if anything is formed by man, and said to represent Jehovah's heavenly organization, then I contend that this thing formed is indeed an Idol. And those that made it are idolators. And I also contend that all those who either in word or deed that bend their knees to such an idol are also guilty of Idolatry, and need to be warned so they can turn around and repent.

The scriptures clearly state that Jesus Christ is the way to Jehovah (John 14:6). Whoever teaches that the way to Jehovah is through an organization is teaching something contrary to Jesus Christ. Just as the Roman Catholics teach that salvation only comes THROUGH the church, can we at the same time teach people that salvation only comes through the Jehovah's Witness organization? If so, we're idolators and are in need of repentance, because we have replaced Jesus Christ with something else... this is idolatry. If we teach that salvation rest THROUGH any man or group including the anointed themselves, then we're idolators, and in need of repentance. For we have replaced Jesus Christ with something else... this is idolatry. For the scriptures clearly teach there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved... except Jesus Christ. (Acts 4:12)

The "brotherhood" of the anointed, those who are members of the spiritual temple act as ambassadors substituting for Christ. Their mission is to tell those of the earth to "become reconciled to God!" How does one become reconciled to God? Only through Jesus Christ whom is alive and ruling as head and Master over the congregation of God in power and glory in the heavens (2Cor 5:20). He is "the way", "the truth", and "the life" (John 4:16)

Noone, noone, noone, comes to the father except through Jesus Christ. He is the gatekeeper. And anyone or anything that comes in his place is a thief and a plunderer. (John 10:1-16)

The God that made the world and all the things in it, being, as this One is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples (nor earthly buildings, or earthly organizations), neither is he attended to by human hands as if he needed anything, because he himself gives to all (persons) life and breath and all things. And he made out of one (man) every nation of men, to dwell upon the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and he set limits of the dwelling of (men), for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. - Acts 17:24-31

End quote.

543

Encouraging scriptures for the day

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

hello my friends,.

here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.

revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).

wantingtruth

Scripture for the day:

~~~ Above everything guard your heart ! - Why? ~~~

.

Proverbs 4: 23

Above everything else guard your heart,

because from it flow the springs of life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark 7 :

18. And He said to them, “Are you also as lacking in understanding?

Don’t you realize that nothing going into a man from the outside can defile him?

19. For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated.” (As a result, He made all foods clean.)

20. Then He said, “What comes out of a person—that defiles him.

21. For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders,

22. adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, promiscuity, stinginess, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness.

23. All these evil things come from within and defile a person.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Thessalonians 4 :

2. For you know what commands we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

3. For this is God’s will, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality,

4. so that each of you knows how to control his own body in sanctification and honor,

5. not with lustful desires, like the Gentiles who don’t know God.

6. This means one must not transgress against and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger of all these offenses, as we also previously told and warned you.

7. For God has not called us to impurity but to sanctification.

8. Therefore, the person who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who also gives you His Holy Spirit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hebrews 10 :

26. For if we sin deliberately

>>> after receiving the knowledge of the truth,

>>> there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

27. but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hebrews 3: 12

Watch out, brothers, so that there won’t be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that departs from the living God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

James 1: 21

Therefore, ridding yourselves of all moral filth and evil,

>>> humbly receive the implanted word, which is able to save you.

=============================

Questions for study:

1) Why should a man guard his heart ?

2) From what kind of heart do the evil things listed by Jesus come out?

3) What is God's will for us?

4) What does "holy" (holiness) mean in accordance with God's word?

5) Is there still a "sacrifice for sins" if we sin willingly after receiving the knowledge of the truth?

6) How can we obtain salvation?

==============================

Please study God's Prophetic Word which foretells what is to happen within His people during the "latter days" :

.

https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1596983540587058

.

~~~~~<<<<<ooooo00OOO00ooooo>>>>>~~~~~

23

JW visit...after 12 years out

by Nobleheart1 in

i used to post here under the name nobleheart but forgot the old password, so put up a new account (nobleheart1).

was a jw (2002-2011), ended up writing a da letter.

i am a christian (since leaving the org).

wantingtruth

Tell them what you have found in Bible :

https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1614000245552054

18

Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.

the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.

wantingtruth

Has God An Organization On Earth Today ?

I have read the Bible .

I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an "organization" on earth .

The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement ...

BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !

God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.

And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !

WHAT is God's Organization (Kingdom) ?

According to Jesus words in Matthew 6 :10

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth."

...we understand that His Organization (Kingdom) means the "state" or the "arrangement" where His will is done [not only at the declarative level]....

... and where God's authority is manifested >>> that implies that in God's Kingdom the willful sinner (or God's opponent) will NOT enter !

1Corinthians 6:9,10 / Galatians 5:19-21 / Rev. 22:14,15.

...

And furthermore, Jesus has taught us that Father’s will is that this [Heavenly] Kingdom to come on earth.

And he taught us to pray for that.

And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”

This is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet (we are still praying for it to come) !

Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?

He says He has a people ! ... Acts 15:14 / Titus 2:14

But has He always had “a people” on earth ?

No! because the history of His chosen people has begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.

So, before of that event God had individuals and "family" .

When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a "people". Genesis 46:6,27.

And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them ... Ezekiel 18:4

“Behold, all souls are Mine;

the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine

The soul who sins will die."

What is God doing “always” is as it follows :

"The LORD looks down from heaven

on all mankind

to see if there are any who understand,

any who seek God."

Psalm 14:2.

So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not "organization"!

Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to "come" .

And how does He did it ?

To the "two greatest commandments" (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the "center" of the "Christian community".

As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:

He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:

34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

John 13:35.

Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !

There was never need for a human "organization" to keep His faithful ones united !

That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).

Within this (worldwide) "community" (or ekklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.

==========

Regarding the much used phrase: “God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:

Job 34:29

"When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?

And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,

>>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. "

So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)...

... while He may be "at peace" with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be "angered" over His nation , as a "whole"

... while He may be "at peace" with His "people" , He may manifest His anger over a certain "individual" who proves to be "law transgressor"

Seeker.

11

JW's: When EXACTLY did Jesus become king?

by BoogerMan in

i thought it was in 1914. silly me!.

w78 3/1 p. 18 par.

15 - when was god’s son made a king-priest like melchizedek?

wantingtruth

-- When EXACTLY did Jesus become king?

-- Jesus became king after the resurrection and before the day of Pentecost,

more precisely at the "ascension" - or "after forty days" from the resurrection...

~~~~~~

Acts 2:36

Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord (King)

and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

23

The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus

by wantingtruth in

john said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?

--------the kingdom of god---------- .

"the kingdom of god is near.

wantingtruth

Quote:

WHAT is God's Kingdom ?

According to Jesus words
Matthew 6 :
10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done , as in heaven, so on earth.

.. .we see that His Kingdom means the state where His will is done !

And surely it implies a certain order made by God .

This "order" means a certain structure of authority between God's heavenly and earthly creatures, of course , made by God, or according to His will ! "

End quote.

=================================================

In fact God's Kingdom is God's (real) Organization !

And this Organization is Heavenly, and it is still in Heavens .. as long as we still pray for it to come on earth!

So, the fact of using the expression "organization" related to God's people is against the Scriptural rule ..
let's read it in 1 Corinthians 2:

9 But this is precisely what is written: God has prepared things for those who love him that no eye has seen, or ear has heard, or that haven’t crossed the mind of any human being.

10 God has revealed these things to us through the Spirit. The Spirit searches everything, including the depths of God.
12 We haven’t received the world’s spirit but God’s Spirit so that we can know the things given to us by God.

13 These are the things we are talking about—

not with words taught by human wisdom

but with words taught by the Spirit—

we are interpreting spiritual things to spiritual people.

14 But people who are unspiritual don’t accept the things from God’s Spirit. They are foolishness to them and can’t be understood, because they can only be comprehended in a spiritual way.

--------------

"but with words taught by the Spirit"— what are "these words" ?

2Timothy 3:16

"Every scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching..."

... inspired by God (through His spirit) ...

Therefore, what God calls "people", "my people", even if this is "organized" in a certain measure, it is unscriptural to call it "Organization" or "God's Organization" !

Using the word "organization" for what God calls "people" caused absolutely much confusion.

wantingtruth

27

How did you find Jehovah's Witness meetings?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i personally have only attended a handful of meetings at kingdom halls.

i did not enjoy any of them nor was i impressed by anything that was conveyed.

perhaps others did not find them boring as i did.. nadia viotto has this to say about her experience.

wantingtruth

I am interested how God sees the assemblies of the people who bear His Name...

Amos 5:

21. “I hate, I despise your feasts,
and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

...............

12. For I know how many are your transgressions
and how great are your sins—
you who afflict the righteous, who take a bribe,
and turn aside the needy in the gate.
.............
22. Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them;
and the peace offerings of your fattened animals,
I will not look upon them.
23. Take away from me the noise of your songs;
to the melody of your harps I will not listen.
24. But let justice roll down like waters,
and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

wantingtruth

8

Was Satan in Heaven while Christ was crucified?

by Sharpie in

just a shower thought came to mind.. while jesus was nailed to the stake/cross (take your pick) because of the witnesses lack of belief in hell.

does that mean according to witness doctrine that satan and his demons were in heaven while jesus was being executed?.

what about after jesus went to heaven?

wantingtruth

I am glad you ask this question... any serious reader of Bible may find the answer.

I have searched this theme already, and posted it even on this forum ....

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/177953/kingdom-god-when-heaven-according-jesus

Jesus and his apostles gave us the answer ...

When we understand what the reality is, then we understand that the foundation for understanding the prophecies is other than that used by wt for building up the explanation of the prophecies ....

... by changing the foundation we will have a completely different form of the "body" of biblical prophetic explanations...

wantingtruth

wantingtruth

Posts by wantingtruth

-- When EXACTLY did Jesus become king?