Posts by Cadellin

118

School for Congregation Elders

by C.O.B.E.Beef in

jw
friends

i attended the school late last year, and it was an emotional and mental rollercoaster for me.

i was already divided in my heart to say the least.

one of the instructors stayed in my home for the week, and my family genuinely enjoyed his company.

Cadellin

Kobe Beef (great name!): Wow. First, thank you for sharing this. You are clearly an intelligent and articulate guy and a critical thinker to boot. It's amazing that the WTS has the gall to demonize the Catholic Church for their hierarchy when they know damn well their own hierarchy is alive and well. I'm interested in knowing more about what you'll do with this final nail in the coffin--when and if you're comfortable talking about it.

Has any other elder/former elder seen the same hierarchial chart written out so explicitly on the board? I'd be curious to know if this is an official part of the curriculum or just the brain wave of one particular instructor -- having it written out like that, not the hierarchy itself which we all know is a reality...

33

At the age of 48 I just graduated with my BA degree from college and I am on top of the world

by booker-t in

jw
friends

i thought i would never get my college degree from a university in this century at the age of 48 but i did it and graduated with an "a-" average.

i did this all the while working a full time job and going to school full time.

it can be done and now i love school to death.

Cadellin

Yee-haw!!! Good for you!!! I just got my MA at the ripe ole age of 46 and it was so worth it. You're never too old!!

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Cadellin

Alleymom, you rock! Thanks so much! And thanks to all of you who are working to expose this canard...

39

Does mankind need religon to have morality?

by highdose in

jw
friends

an arguement i've encountered recently is: god tells us right from wrong.

if you don't have a reason to do right instead of wrong then no one will have any morals.. i disagree with this entirely of course.

what kind of morality is it when you are only doing what is right out of fear of being punished for doing what is wrong?.

Cadellin

I think this is a hugely important topic. I just recently read (well, listened to--audiobook) Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape, which asserts that science can (and should) be the basis for morality or ethics. Harris bases his claim on the idea that there is such a thing as human well-being, and that it can be produced or destroyed through various ways of living. His definition of well-being is basically a state of emotional, mental and physical health. Because "health" can mean different things to different people, he describe morality as a landscape with multiple peaks and valleys, the peaks being different means to the same goal of well-being, the valleys being really bad states (poverty, disease, repression, abuse, fear, malnutrition, etc.)

If we can agree that well-being is possible in humans, then, Harris asserts, we should also be able to agree that certain practices can either increase well-being or decrease it, and that that can be quantified, measured. He uses the extreme example of the enforcement of the burqa in certain Moslem communities, positing that locking women in a sack is a practice that potentially decreases well-being, particularly as the rationale for doing so lies in certain deprecatory beliefs about females in general. If well-being is a fundamental human goal (and he puts a lot of emphasis on mental well-being or, I should say, positive states of consciousness) and the well-being of conscious creatures is the ultimate aim in everything we do (and he's not totally homocentric in this), then science SHOULD be very concerned with explicating those conditions and practices which enhance well-being, and equally strident in opposing those practices which lead to "valleys."

19

November 15 WT on jw.org

by Gayle in

ugh,,.

had article of disabled woman,,she had offer of marriage by a fellow disabled man, considered ,but not a jw so will wait till new world when can leap and run and be sound of health.

poor dear.. another article about "temporary residents" to subsist and work for suffiencies as "the days are numbered" and then can have a beautiful house.

Cadellin

Just ran through it quickly and noticed a couple of other interesting things:

--High ed: The statement in the study artcle on "Temporary Residents" that says "Vigilant Christians refrain from using the world to the full when it comes to higher education" (or something like that), is about as close to making a rule on higher ed as I've seen. I don't think they could put it any stronger without it actually becoming a rule. I would hazard a guess that the economic downturn globally is sending JWs back to school and parents are probably telling teenagers to go to college right out of high school, given that employment among teens is around 50% in many areas, even here in the US. The GB is cracking down on this, "evidently," yet I would be curious as to what they think the average 18 year old JW fresh out of the hs would actually be able to do for a job??? Oh, that's right--Jehovah will provide. I forgot.

--The article on preaching to me was also noteworthy. I can't remember ever seeing an entire study article specifically instructing JWs to go after men as a group. Clearly, the gender imbalance is reaching crisis proportions in many places. Plus, I wonder if anyone actually stops and thinks: Don't JWs teach that Jehovah draws right-hearted persons to him? That angels are directing sheep-like ones to the "Truth"? If that's the case, why the heck isn't God drawing more men? Why aren't angels seeking out the sheepish men?

--The QFR on the discrepancy in times of impalement b/w Mark and John contains no real explanation and so the article ends somewhat lamely: "Although sufficent Scriptural information is not available to explain the difference, we can trust the Gospel accounts." This is emblematic of the whole WT stance toward the Bible--that belief in it is a matter of faith and not of logic or any kind of internal or external evidence. It doesn't really matter what anomalies or fallacies you might uncover, it is a priori the Word of God and therefore infallible.

224

When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows

by wannabefree in

obviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.

Cadellin

YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST! Ann-o-maly, VM44, wannabefree and everyone else who posted links or explanatory info here, thank you!

In particular, the dishonesty regarding the Christopher Walker quote is stunning. It's a replication of the same kind of intellectual dishonesty and quote mining that the old Creation book is full of (not to mention the newer brochures). Its the same old thing that these bastards KNOW has stumbled people badly. On the other hand, it's also the stuff of wake-up calls. THe challenge is to get JWs to see through this nefarious game.

49

The Convention Pretty Much Sucked

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i feel better now.. but just in case you are wondering why i think it sucked, here you go:.

- it was clearly an "insider's only" convention.

why invite the public if you are just going to engage in crazy talk that only jws can decipher?.

Cadellin

I thnk your comments re the Daniel Toes Talk are spot on. As has been commented before, it seems like the WT was gearing up for some big announcement but something pulled the rug out from under them. As a result, that particular talk was back-pedalling confusion, with the oh-so-lame excuse, "If you're still not sure, there'll be a WT coming out to explain it." (And, yes, the brother used almost those exact words) HUH??? Since when has the spotlight, main-event talk ever deferred in that way? It was like "We really dont know what to say about this at this moment but we'll think of something and get back toyou." I would love to know what went on in the back rooms over this weird non-event.

I asked my uber-zealous hubby if he picked up on the "new light" and he said, "Sure, it's that the toes don't mean anything special." When I asked what we thought they meant before, he just shrugged. And he's an elder, born-in, ex-Bethelite.

46

Review and Comments on the New Elders Book

by MrDarkKnight in

i recently completed an exhaustive review of an unofficial copy of the new elders manual.

my father, who is currently serving as an elder told me a friend of his in the service department told him it was on the internet so i eagerly looked for it and found it.

yes, i know it was a violation of copyright, but while at bethel i made copies of many technical manuals which is also a copy of copyright so the wts hypocrisy does not concern me.. i was appointed as an elder the year the pay attention book (manual replaced by this one) was released so i have very good working knowledge of the old book and could compare the two books.

Cadellin

I may have lost my mind, but I found my soul.

Amen.

160

I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

by PenelopePaige in

jw
friends

hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

Cadellin

Good stuff here, so I don't have much to add. Penelope, welcome. You are smart to come here. Despite what ConcernedJW says, most of what you hear on this site is NOT hearsay but first hand primary evidence from people who gave a significant portion of their lives to the WT. As someone who was raised by former missionary parents and spent several years pioneering, I will join in the chorus and suggest that you tie on your running shoes...

As far as "JWs never claimed they are perfect," I just want to add one simple thing. It doesn't matter. That can't be used as a rhetorical safety hatch, as if it somehow excuses all their failed predictions and wrong interpretations. Rather, when the WT makes a statement, prediction or interpretation, it presents it, not as the best guess of imperfect men but as coming from God--"food at the proper time," "dining at God's table," provisions from Jehovah, direction from his "spirited-anointed" / "spirit-directed" / "spirit-led" organization (I'm sure you've heard one or more of those phrases already) and as something that is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AT THE TIME. They even use the phrase "present truth" to describe current beliefs, while paradoxically clinging to the ontological stance that truth is absolute. There is no option as to whether you as a JW will agree, accept or obey. You will, because otherwise it is the same as DISOBEYING JEHOVAH. These two situations are presented as equivalent.

The WT organization assumes divine authority when dispensing information but shirks it under the disclaimer "we never said we were perfect" when it turns out they are wrong. And, in my opinion, that stinks.

61

Never, ever posted to a site before-Scarec silly

by PaintedToeNail in

jw
friends

hi, i'm scared to death writing this that i will be discovered and have major problems.

i had a good life being raised as a jw child.

many good memories of people, places and times.

Cadellin

Greetings, PTN: Wow, I loved reading your post because you and I are in such similar circumstances! I, too, am a wife and mother who was raised in the "truth" by zealous yet balanced and loving parents. I had a great childhood and was convinced right up until about eight years ago that this was the ultimate and absolute truth. I, too, like you, am married to a wonderful husband who is an active elder.

What opened my eyes was researching the Creation book and finding, to my shock and heartbreak, how many of the supposedly scientific quotes were taken grossly out of context or from non-authoritative sources. How, I wondered, could an organization that publishes material like this in the name of the God, as "food at the proper time" with all of the theological weight such description invokes, engage in such unethical--deceitful, really--behavior? That led me to actually research evolution--by this time I realized that everything I "thought" I knew about it had come from the WT--and when I started reading the accumulation of real, relevant scientific findings, I was staggered. I started posting here about that time and quickly latched on to the wonderful, amazing Leoleaia's posts about Biblical and ancient Near East history as well as her vast knowledge of NT textual and source criticism. I started reading scholarly works on the Bible and quickly realized how inept and baseless many of the claims he WT make regarding the putative historicity of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Like you, I couldn't continue to engage in the field ministry or sit through meetings on a regular basis. This is tough, really. But it does get better. Remember, you have a right to your own beliefs. You have a right to make decisions about your life and what you will believe. I go to Sunday meetings to keep peace with my husband. In return, he doesn't pressure me to attend at other time or to engage in the ministry. As far as my child goes, I am as honest as I can be. And I respect my husband's right to teach our child what he believes. I encourage our child to make up his own mind.

This has been longer than I intended. I just want to say how much I appreciate a new poster like you who's in the same situation I'm in. And let me add that it is possible to work out a compromise, to glean some of the good things that the WT teaches (and they do teach some good things) and let the rest roll off your back.