Posts by Cadellin

45

It CAN'T go on much longer

by jean-luc picard in

jw
friends

so thats what my mum told me today.

i've learned to hold my tongue but i was thinking,.

"why can't it?

What's particularly obnoxious about this doctrine is how they fan the flames of urgency via official channels, like the District Convention of 2009, where the word "imminent" was used literally in every talk to describe Armaggedon's closeness. It had to have been emphasized in the manuscripts and outlines sent out by the WTBC, because every speaker mentioned it. So what does "imminent" mean?

Well, it's a great little weasel word that can be used to, as I said, reignite the urgency in the minds of the rank and file. At the same time, when this latest prophecy proves wrong (and that's what it was, a prophecy), the Society can retreat to the defense of "we never actually said when it was coming--we're just pointing out the 'season,'" which is their response whenever anyone attempts to point out their record of failed predictions. IOO, they like to have their "date" and eat it too. (Ok, not such a great play on words, but you get my meaning)

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

Cadellin

Love the Shaw quote.

110

....And what if it IS the truth????

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what next???

.

Cadellin

Welcome, Growinggirl and Notreadytorun:

Great names, btw. Mr. Flipper just spoke words of wisdom. GG, when I was going through the same mental anquish that you are currently experiencing, I asked myself, "If the WT really is the truth, then what else would also have to be true?" IOO, what does it mean in the larger framework for the JWs to have the only "truth"?

Well, for one it means that virtually every avenue of known scientific knowledge is wrong. This includes the vast array of information gleaned from DNA, geology and fossils regarding the history of life on earth, the basic laws of physics governing radiometric decay, the astronomy revealing irregularities in the earth's orbit (causing the known pattern of ice ages), the analyses of ice core samples calibrated to other historical physical data such as volcanic eruptions. I could go on but I won't--Leolaia recently reposted a fantastic listing of science that would have be wrong if the literal flood were true and you should check that out.

So if all this science is flat-out, dead wrong, what does that mean? It means, for one, that we can't "know" anything based on our senses. We can't trust any particular picture of the physical reality governing the conditions of our existence--how life on this planet works--based on any tangible, quantifiable data, regardless of how much independent lines of evidence converge or how consistent such "laws" are over time. (Actually, it would mean that such "laws" ARENT consistent--the very same laws that the WT points to as evidence of a designer. IOO, if the WT's view of life is right, then all those supposedly consistent laws aren't consistent at all). "Knowledge" can't come through our physical senses. It's just not accurate. So where does that leave us?

Basically, it leaves us with no way of verifying reality. The WT claims that w/o the "Truth," we have no purpose in life, that we're twisting aimlessly in the wind. Well, w/o any way of verifying reality--even verifying the reality of Biblical prophecies, which necessarily means relying on some physical data or another--we're left twisting in an epistemological wind, at the mercy of anyone who says, "Believe me--I'm telling you the truth," whether that happens to be the WT or another Jim Jones.

Oh, this was way longer than I intended, but I hope it makes sense. Think about it. I sure have.

61

How the house of cards comes crashing down, in the WTS' own words.

by poopsiecakes in

"rejecting or trivializing the genesis account about adam and eve creates a domino effect that undermines nearly every major teaching in the bible!

such a way of thinking leads to a host of unanswered questions and a faith with nothing to stand on.".

footnote: "these include teachings about gods sovereignty, human integrity, good and evil, free will, the condition of the dead, marriage, the promised messiah, a paradise earth, gods kingdom, and many others.".

Cadellin

ctrwtf: I like the link you posted, but doesn't it indicate that the genus Homo is about 1.66 million years old? Unless you're being ironic...

61

How the house of cards comes crashing down, in the WTS' own words.

by poopsiecakes in

"rejecting or trivializing the genesis account about adam and eve creates a domino effect that undermines nearly every major teaching in the bible!

such a way of thinking leads to a host of unanswered questions and a faith with nothing to stand on.".

footnote: "these include teachings about gods sovereignty, human integrity, good and evil, free will, the condition of the dead, marriage, the promised messiah, a paradise earth, gods kingdom, and many others.".

Cadellin

While the Adam and Eve account may not agree with the theory of evolution, it matches what is known to science.

This little nugget of epistemological double-think comes a little further along. It rests on the fallacy that evolution is not "known to science." That's right, folks, "true science" (as coined by the WTBS) is still not sure whether all presently known species have been shaped by billions of years of natural selection so that they can be grouped taxonomically according to degrees of relatedness, based on the convergence of both DNA and fossil evidence, or whether they all sprang into being some fifty thousand years ago, thus bearing no inherent relatedness to each other, or any meaningful indication of environmental adaptation.

Oh, wait! I forgot--no, no, I've got it wrong. All the species we see today actually evolved from a few pairs on the ark only 4,000 years ago! Yes, yes, that's what's "known to science!"

41

Tomorrow is a big day for me

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

i will be 60 tomorrow.

on the one hand, it's just a number.

on the other hand, it's a big number.... .

Cadellin

You look great! Happy birthday!

10

Take advantage of today's text in "Examing the Scriptures Daily" with your JW loved ones

by wannabefree in

thursday, march 1. .

do not become ashamed of the witness about our lord.-2 tim.

to handle peer pressure, you first have to be convinced that your beliefs and standards are right.

Cadellin

The purpose of that question is not to arouse skepticism but to strengthen your faith.

Well, there it is. That's the REAL intent between what the WT is asking you to do. It's not an authentic proof test--which necessarily involves putting beliefs at risk--but rather ratification of what is already taken to be true. By staying within the magic circle of WT publications, the answer to any questions such as why I belive God exists or why I believe we're in the last days is inevitably, "Because the Society says so."

Still, most JWs haven't the critical (read: independent) thinking skills to distinguish between these two endeavors. Most will (naively) believe that the Society really is encouraging an "honest-hearted" examination. So you might be able to do something with that...

29

evolution

by inbetween in

since my awakening from the mind control of the wts, it has been an exciting also frigthening journey of exploration and free thinking.. i would say, today i try to be open to anything, i ll go whatever direction facts show.

while i`m no scientist, i think i have a glue about the scientific method.

i also agree with the statemant, that some extraordinary claim needs extraordinary proof.. so far, it is a difficult question whether god exists or not, and probably in my lifetime i will not get a conclusive answer.. however, my concerns are about evolution, since even a confirmation of evolution does not necessarily exclude the existence of a god, it just proivdes an alternative explanation, in case there is no god.. even though i did not really read a book yet about evolution, i read other books of people, whose reasoning i can agree to, and they believe in evolution.. .

Cadellin

When I started exploring ideas beyond the realm of the WT, evolution was one of the first. What struck me--and I suspect you, too, inbetween--is how grossly misinformed I'd been from basing my beliefs on what the WT wrote, such as little gems like the Creation book.

As another poster has noted, it is absolutely necessary for you to start reading about the science of evolution. Coyne's book is absolutely fantastic. Another good one is Carl Zimmer's Evolution: the Triumph of an Idea, which is ideal for the lay person with little or no background in biology and might be easier for you, given that English is not your first language. Another good one is Prothero's Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters

Since you're interested in the idea of "missing links" (and be aware that the science community does not use that term since it is highly misleading; it's more favored by creationists and the popular media), you might read Carl Zimmer's At the Water's Edge, which is a detailed account of the evolution of whales. The number of so-called "missing links" or transitional species discovered in the cetacean family tree is startling and revealing about the general nature of how evolution works to produce morphological change.

Happy learning!!!

68

EX JW teen just signs with legendary producer!!!!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

it has been a long time since i have posted.

time heals much pain, and finally, my family and i have been able to move on with our life outside of jw land.. many of you became our friends, our support system, and you know very well our exit story...we were labeled, slandered and disfellowshipped for having questions regarding the date 607. we sent out letters exposing the elders and circuit overseer to over 200 families.

Cadellin

That is amazing! Your daughter is a very special and lucky person to have her dreams rescued like that -- and you are clearly a great mom! What a wonderful story--and please keep us posted as her career progresses!

90

More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?

by cedars in

yes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.

indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.

for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.

Cadellin

"Let us therefore have nothing to do with apostates or anyone who claims to be a brother but who is dishonoring God. This should be the case even if he is a family member."

This is the troubling part. What does "claim to be a brother" mean? It could easily be interpreted to mean someone who's not df'd--in fact, I would say that's the intent. So, even if a family member who's not df'd seems to be questioning the Society, we should "have nothing to do" w/him or her. This does appear to be a more entrenched position than has been the case up till recently. Someone started another thread about "unofficial" shunning and I have to say, I think that's becoming more the case. I have experienced that recently myself from a family member who is a Bethelite, someone I was very close to for most of my life but now is giving me the silent treatment, even though I've said nothing to that person overtly "apostate."

Yes, they're scared and as they become scared, they get more hard-line. Isn't that another feature of a cult?