Posts by Cadellin

155

Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

hi people,.

i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).

1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.

Cadellin

1) Raised

2) 1980 (I was 15)

3) 2005

25 years, of which a significant amount was spent as either a reg or aux pioneer. The internet did play a role in my leaving, although perhaps not decisive, since many "wake-up" moment(s) occurred at the good ole fashioned library reading those weird pagey things. Nevertheless, coming across this site, as well as others discussing the UN NGO affiliation and evolution (specifically talkorigins.org) were also invaluable. I guess I should add, I accessed Ray Franz's CoC online as well and that really was a stunner.

I'm so glad you are undertaking this data collection. Please share your results once you are done!

70

"Most women would prefer to be stay at home housewives. Women's lib did alot of damage to women!"

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

the above is a quote from a jw female relative.

this was in response to a discussion about the suffragette movement ( and the movie about it that's currently in cinemas).

she seemed to think that it would be so much better if women were just daughters/ wives/ mothers and didn't go out to work and have career's?

Cadellin

I think most JW women toe the party line when it comes to feminism, which is that it is BAD and DEMONIC. Blech. And, sure, most JW women would definitely prefer to stay home over working because they did not go to college and the only work many of them are able to do is low-wage labor, and probably not very enjoyable. Under those circumstances, I, too, would prefer to stay home. In fact, I did stay home when my daughter was small. I loved it. What's the point?

The point is that what women were fighting for in the 60's and 70's wasn't merely the right to hold a job but the right to choose. The role of homemaker can be fulfilling, creative and mindful. But it's not for everyone, just like being a plumber isn't for everyone. Women's liberation was about obtaining recognition as human beings, as independent agents--especially with respect to the body--and as intellectuals. It was about equality with men when it came to personal freedoms, choice and respect. Anyone who thinks it did more damage than good needs to read some of the media of the forties and fifties (or earlier), including the WT's publications. Or reflect on some of the laws. Language and images that we would today consider grotesquely sexist and demeaning was considered normal and acceptable.

27

Evolution and Creation—both are stories!

by lsw1961 in

there are number of nobel laureates and other great scientists in both the camps defending their respective theories of evolution and creation, which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses.

if either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the laws such as law of gravity..

this does not mean that there is no god.

Cadellin

which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses. If either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the Laws such as Law of Gravity.

Um, no. To equate evolution with the various creation myths is to demonstrate a fairly profound lack of understanding of what evolution is and why virtually (almost) all biologists recognize it as at least as well supported as the heliocentric model of our solar system. As OneEyed Joe already noted, some biologists argue over variations in certain aspects of evolution (and this is normal in any field of science), but the vast, vast majority acknowledge that common descent as close to being proven as anything can be and that natural selection, while perhaps not the sole engine of change, is a significant design force.

And who said an eyewitness is necessary for something to be true? There was no eyewitness to the Big Bang, or to numerous other historical phenomenon. Moreover, natural selection has been witnessed in person, both in the lab, in digital models and in the wild.

Evolution is one of the those subjects that is, admittedly, complex. It takes time and effort to actually dig into credible, authoritative sources and learn about it, enough to separate what is factual from what is commony believed. Unfortunately, popular media doesn't help in this regard, especially when it uses misleading headlines bandying about terms like "missing link" or phrases suggesting that everything scientists used to believe needs to be changed.

40

Last Days? Are you serious ....?

by Aleph in

believing we live in the last days?.

Cadellin

While it is true that the ability to wipe out life via nuclear detonation DOES distinguish our modern times, it is also true that humans have shown admirable (and unusual) restraint in using those nukes. Setting the potential aside, there is no escaping the fact that we are living in the most peaceful and prosperous time in human history. For those in doubt, check out economist Max Roser's wonderful graphic website http://ourworldindata.org/, where you can page through graphs of historical data measuring things like life span and global poverty rates.

Who knows whether humans will wipe themselves out? We can't speculate. But what we do have is comparative data on how the day to day lives of humans has changed for the better. One of my frustrations with WT rhetoric about the last days is that the stats they tossed around were always decontextualized. Okay, so there were 100,000,000 people killed in warfare during the 20th Century. That's a lot! But it also suggests that there were a lot of people AROUND to kill, people that would have died in childhood or early life if they had lived during other times. Numbers always have to be put within context so that you are comparing apples to apples, which is why the Society rarely offers statements as comparative percentages, preferring the shock effect of straight up raw numbers.

44

The Witnesses Are Really Trying Hard To Get Me Back In

by minimus in

jw
friends

at my mom's bed side all i see is either jw family or friends making a concerted effort to have me return to their fold.

evidentlyy, my mom has encouraged this and i'm a trapped prisoner, as they do their best to have me come back.

it's bad enough that i have to endure my mom's dying, now i have to be bombarded with this bs..

Cadellin

I'm sorry about your difficult situation. I'm going through something similar right now, though from what you've posted, not as bad. Hang in there...it's tough.

138

My Mother Died Two Weeks Ago

by Perry in

jw
friends

none of my jehovah's witness relatives called to tell me or my family.

just found out this morning.

Cadellin

You have my deepest sympathy. That is terrible. I'm so sorry that your family are behaving in such an unchristian, inhumane way.

135

Latest Leaked BOE letter to Elders Oct. 4th

by Watchtower-Free in

october 4, 2015. to all congregations.

re: new provisions announced atannual meeting.

dear brothers:.

Cadellin

This is rebranding to save a sinking ship. But wow--I never expected it to be so drastic. Yes, no doubt that this part of the continued abatement of any participants' creative thinking skills. The Theo. Min. School used to be the most interesting part of the meeting, esp. when someone would (occasionally) get creative and then the counsel was always interesting, esp. when it was actual counsel instead of a pat on the back. Now, packaged videos from Mother and a pretty coloring book. Yikes.

And how in holy hell could the Bible Teach book get any more simplified??? It's already at about a Grade Four reading level. The target audience must indeed be developmentally disabled persons or those who are completely illiterate--those least likely to see through the craziness. So sad.

61

Today's Special Day Assembly Expenses and the $10,499 Deficit. Silent Majority?

by Tenacious in

today i attended a one-day assembly in my hometown.

i knew when it came time to read the afternoon expenses that it would be an incredibly high and ridiculous amount that was nowhere near the real expenses for that day.

sure enough, after lunch came the announcement.

Cadellin

Interesting comment from the Assemb Overseer about the Branch raising the "expense" per publisher from $3.50 to $10.50 to reflect the equal balance for the Branch "as a whole." I wonder what that means exactly? At first glance, I took it to mean that English speaking congs. need to pay more to offset the lesser means of foreign lang. congs., who, as we all know, are far outpacing them in growth. Spanish congs. have many impoverished attendees and could probably never afford to pay the "suggested" or whatever cost per pub.

But--I don't know. It would be interesting to know more about this...

Let me add too, that, even though it's been years since I had to attend an assembly, it was ALWAYS like that--a stratospherically high expense report and a reported deficit. This, too, was for an assembly hall that had been in use for years and years and HAD to be paid for by then (Surrey, BC, Canada). It had a full-time caretaker who was in "special service" (read: minimal monthly allowance aka Bethel-rate) and any major repairs were done by brothers for free, naturally. I could never figure out why it cost thousands of dollars to pay for lights, water and heat for one or two days. And, yes, of course those things are kept on all the time, but this assembly hall was used every single weekend, plus there were two or three KH in the same building, whose publishers would also be paying each month. Crazy, crazy.

60

New light from GB member David Splane!

by Island Man in

in the latest jw broadcast splane is quoted as saying:.

"suppose there was a man who died 10 minutes before joseph was born.

would he be part of joseph's generation?

Cadellin

What's even more interesting (and mindbending) is that he is suggesting that if a baby was born 10 minutes BEFORE Joseph died, then they would be of the same generation. By this logic, a child born 10 minutes before Fred Franz died in 1992 would be of the same generation as Franz. In other words, someone 23 years old right now is of the same generation as someone born in 1893.

The WT's use of the Joseph generation scripture is really quite ridiculous. Joseph and his brothers were of the same generation not because their lives overlapped, but because they were all brothers, born of the same man. Moreover, given that a woman's procreative timespan is relatively short (less than 40 years) and given that their four mothers were all contemporaries of each other (Rachel, Leah, Bildad and Zilpah, if I have that right), the brothers would not have been dramatically far apart in age--less than 40 years from the oldest to the youngest--in all likelihood. Again, fitting with the Biblical generation.

210

TV.JW.ORG (September 2015) - Generation explained again

by Designer Stubble in

guess the overlapping generation concept is difficult for most to comprehend.

david spane does his best to explain it again.

the cutoff date for this generation has now moved to 1992 (was once 1935), the year that fred franz died.

Cadellin

It's not just stupid--it's depressingly stupid. At one point, long ago when I was active, I could take a certain pride in the (quasi) logic of our theology, believing that it was at least somewhat defensible from the Bible. This new nonsense isn't even close.